Аутор Тема: J1 PF7263 from Greece  (Прочитано 9879 пута)

Ван мреже Alexandra_K

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Одг: J1 PF7263 from Greece
« Одговор #100 послато: септембар 11, 2018, 06:51:34 поподне »
15974   free   PF7263   ChrY   20701461   20701461   T+
15974   2018-08-28   PF7263   ChrY   20701461   20701461   T+
15974   free   PF7264   ChrY   7974038   7974038   G+
15974   2018-08-16   PF7264   ChrY   7974038   7974038   G+
15974   free   S183   ChrY   12366631   12366631   G-
15974   free   Y-GATA-H4   ChrY   18743384   18743751   10
15974   free   Y3758   ChrY   21578093   21578093   G-
15974   free   Y21651   ChrY   21578214   21578214   G-
15974   free   Y21661   ChrY   21578243   21578243   A-
15974   free   Y22448   ChrY   20701328   20701328   A-
15974   free   Y24943   ChrY   20701328   20701328   A-
15974   free   Y29700   ChrY   21578400   21578400   G-
15974   free   Y31307   ChrY   22284900   22284900   A-
15974   free   Y32071   ChrY   12366580   12366580   T-
15974   free   Y39163   ChrY   7974062   7974062   C-
15974   free   Y46493   ChrY   7973974   7973974   G-
15974   free   Y46494   ChrY   7974023   7974023   G-
15974   free   Y46495   ChrY   7974262   7974262   T-
15974   free   Y49593   ChrY   12366527   12366527   G-
15974   free   Y59493   ChrY   21578300   21578300   C-
15974   free   Y59805   ChrY   22284888   22284888   T-
15974   free   Y80272   ChrY   21578116   21578116   T-
15974   free   Y80699   ChrY   22284916   22284916   T-
15974   free   Y85133   ChrY   7973931   7973931   T-
15974   free   Y85134   ChrY   7974112   7974112   T-
15974   free   Y109995   ChrY   20701384   20701384   A-
15974   free   Y112189   ChrY   21578399   21578399   C-
15974   free   Y112838   ChrY   22285158   22285158   A-
15974   free   Y112839   ChrY   22285311   22285311   T-
15974   free   Y136003   ChrY   12366537   12366537   G-
15974   free   Y147346   ChrY   7974067   7974067   G-
15974   free   YCAII   ChrY   19622083   19622240   19-22
15974   free   YP272   ChrY   22284890   22284890   T-
15974   free   YP1066   ChrY   20701297   20701297   G-
15974   free   Z11653   ChrY   20701491   20701491   T-
15974   free   Z30770   ChrY   22285164   22285164   A-
15974   free   Z33972   ChrY   7973903   7973903   A-
15974   free   Z34748   ChrY   7973844   7973844   C-
15974   free   Z36725   ChrY   7974203   7974203   G-
15974   free   Z39407   ChrY   21577937   21577937   G-
15974   free   ZS4452   ChrY   22285198   22285198   T+
15974   2018-09-09   ZS4452   ChrY   22285198   22285198   T+
15974   free   ZS4869   ChrY   22285292   22285292   A-
15974   free   ZS5194   ChrY   20701412   20701412   A-
15974   free   ZS5432   ChrY   22285058   22285058   C-
15974   free   ZS7706   ChrY   22284983   22284983   C-
15974   free   ZS8356   ChrY   7973991   7973991   C-
15974   free   ZS9802   ChrY   7973890   7973890   G-
15974   free   ZS10589   ChrY   21577947   21577947   A-
15974   2018-09-03   ZS10589   ChrY   21577947   21577947   A-
15974   free   ZS11872   ChrY   20701309   20701309   A-

Ван мреже radon

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Одг: J1 PF7263 from Greece
« Одговор #101 послато: септембар 12, 2018, 07:50:38 пре подне »
Quick results summary:
ZS4452 T+

:-D

Well that is exellent news. Yseq was very quick this time. So we know your position in the tree right now. What do you think about it?

Ван мреже Alexandra_K

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« Одговор #102 послато: септембар 12, 2018, 08:33:41 пре подне »
Yes, I am very happy to have found out!!!  ;D  ;) So, theoretically speaking we could still belong to cluster BY38105? The branches of Moray and Maksivomic are already out of the question? Or maybe there is a completely new branch under ZS4452 where my father belongs to? Thank you, fellow ZS4452 :-P

Ван мреже radon

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« Одговор #103 послато: септембар 12, 2018, 11:50:37 пре подне »
Yes, I am very happy to have found out!!!  ;D  ;) So, theoretically speaking we could still belong to cluster BY38105? The branches of Moray and Maksivomic are already out of the question? Or maybe there is a completely new branch under ZS4452 where my father belongs to? Thank you, fellow ZS4452 :-P

Yes, you could be BY38105, even I doubt. Maksimovic is out of question and at Moray we can't divide what are his personal SNPs and what he share with some wider community. I don't know if Yseq have some other phylogenetic tree more detailed for ZS4452, to see what they offer for further testing. You may ask them if you want.

In this moment I belive that you father is some independent brench under ZS4452. I will send you something on PM

About some history materials I would recommend work of Alexander Panayotov, Bulgarian historian which field among others is history of the Jews on Balkan and Aegean

The firs work is about "The first Jewish communities in the Balkans and the Aegean" with informations about first communities in region of south Balkan. Paper is not long, 18 pages but with lot material
http://www.academia.edu/1510819/The_First_Jewish_Communities_in_the_Balkans_and_the_Aegean

Second is "Jews and Jewish communities in the Balkans and the Aegean until the twelfth century" with list of material artefacts and epigraphic monuments about Jewish presence in these parts of Roman empire

http://www.academia.edu/9135114/Jews_and_Jewish_communities_in_the_Balkans_and_the_Aegean_until_the_twelfth_century

So, welcome to family Alexandra :)

Ван мреже Alexandra_K

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« Одговор #104 послато: септембар 12, 2018, 08:36:31 поподне »
Thank you so much, Radon! I feel really great to be part of the same big family as you guys! :-)
Thank you for the PM, yes, I see what you mean, cool :-)
Well, that's a good idea, I will write to them and ask this.
Once I have some more time, I will read the essays you attached (as soon as possible, because I am so curious!). It has been very hectic today and didn't have the chance.
Many many greetings!
Laku noć!!

Ван мреже Alexandra_K

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« Одговор #105 послато: септембар 18, 2018, 09:15:16 поподне »
They were really quick this time!

Quick results summary:
BY38105 T+

Radon....Bingo!!!

:-D :-D
« Последња измена: септембар 18, 2018, 09:34:38 поподне Amicus »

Ван мреже Odisseo

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« Одговор #106 послато: новембар 03, 2018, 09:45:51 поподне »
Hi!
I apologize if I get intervene in the discussion but I would like to give my contribution to the debate about the origins of our haplogroup PF7263. First of all, I'm happy to know you. In a sense we are distant relatives since we share the paternal ancestor. I followed your very interesting discussion on the forum "Хаплогрупа J1-PF7263, покушај историјске реконструкције" and I thank you for the many information provided.
I would very much like to find out the origin of our common ancestor!
I am Sicilian (Italy) and I tested my DNA with BIG Y of FTDNA a few months ago and my haplogroup is  J1 BY38105. At this moment on the SNP map of FTDNA this haplogroup turns out to be brought over by me, from an Iraqi, a Portuguese and a Norwegian, as well as obviously from the relative of Alexandra. My STR values are shown on the page of the J1 Y-DNA project of FTDNA.
The STR values of the people BY38105 present considerable divergences and this makes me think that there are sub-clades still to be discovered.
About the possible Jewish origin of many clades downstream of PF7263, I agree with what was reported by Radon. First of all PF7264 (from which PF7263 and P56 descend) is  brother of P58 since they both derive from L136. PF7264, with its descendants PF7263 and P56, is undoubtedly a minor cluster present in all populations of Semitic origin (Jews, Arabs, Yemenis, etc.)
Among the many clues I found for example, I observe wich on 71 people downstream of PF7263 present in the various FTDNA projects, 27 (38%) have a clear Jewish origin proven by the participation in Jewish projects of FTDNA or the indications provided by the various members (2 out of 4 within BY38105). Moreover, even many individuals who are not currently Jews present on the basis of STR values a very high genetic closeness with current Jewish individuals and consequently many of them could be descendants of Jews converted to Christianity or Islam.
Finally, PF7263 and its downstream clades as well as resulting from the various FTDNA groups have their main diffusion center in the Central Eastern European areas traditionally populated by Ashkenazi Jews. PF7263 and  clades downstream are also widespread in areas very distant from each other such as Southern Italy, the Canary Islands, Yemen, Spain, Iraq and Kurdistan, countries united by the fact that they have been inhabited by thriving Jewish communities.
Interesting, even if no longer updated, is this site on the Hebrew DNA that confirms that PF7263 is certainly widespread among the Jews: http://jewishdna.net/index.html. In particular the branches pPF7263 are the A-39 and the A-38.
Radon I wanted to ask you two questions:
1.   do you know what Viktar Mas thinks of our haplogroup J1PF7263?
2.   do you know why the clusters of the J1 Y-DNA project of FTDNA are no longer updated?
Thank you very much for the attention

Ван мреже radon

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« Одговор #107 послато: новембар 04, 2018, 08:15:05 пре подне »
Hi!
I apologize if I get intervene in the discussion but I would like to give my contribution to the debate about the origins of our haplogroup PF7263. First of all, I'm happy to know you. In a sense we are distant relatives since we share the paternal ancestor. I followed your very interesting discussion on the forum "Хаплогрупа J1-PF7263, покушај историјске реконструкције" and I thank you for the many information provided.
I would very much like to find out the origin of our common ancestor!
I am Sicilian (Italy) and I tested my DNA with BIG Y of FTDNA a few months ago and my haplogroup is  J1 BY38105. At this moment on the SNP map of FTDNA this haplogroup turns out to be brought over by me, from an Iraqi, a Portuguese and a Norwegian, as well as obviously from the relative of Alexandra. My STR values are shown on the page of the J1 Y-DNA project of FTDNA.
The STR values of the people BY38105 present considerable divergences and this makes me think that there are sub-clades still to be discovered.
About the possible Jewish origin of many clades downstream of PF7263, I agree with what was reported by Radon. First of all PF7264 (from which PF7263 and P56 descend) is  brother of P58 since they both derive from L136. PF7264, with its descendants PF7263 and P56, is undoubtedly a minor cluster present in all populations of Semitic origin (Jews, Arabs, Yemenis, etc.)
Among the many clues I found for example, I observe wich on 71 people downstream of PF7263 present in the various FTDNA projects, 27 (38%) have a clear Jewish origin proven by the participation in Jewish projects of FTDNA or the indications provided by the various members (2 out of 4 within BY38105). Moreover, even many individuals who are not currently Jews present on the basis of STR values a very high genetic closeness with current Jewish individuals and consequently many of them could be descendants of Jews converted to Christianity or Islam.
Finally, PF7263 and its downstream clades as well as resulting from the various FTDNA groups have their main diffusion center in the Central Eastern European areas traditionally populated by Ashkenazi Jews. PF7263 and  clades downstream are also widespread in areas very distant from each other such as Southern Italy, the Canary Islands, Yemen, Spain, Iraq and Kurdistan, countries united by the fact that they have been inhabited by thriving Jewish communities.
Interesting, even if no longer updated, is this site on the Hebrew DNA that confirms that PF7263 is certainly widespread among the Jews: http://jewishdna.net/index.html. In particular the branches pPF7263 are the A-39 and the A-38.
Radon I wanted to ask you two questions:
1.   do you know what Viktar Mas thinks of our haplogroup J1PF7263?
2.   do you know why the clusters of the J1 Y-DNA project of FTDNA are no longer updated?
Thank you very much for the attention

Hello Odisseo and welcome :)

I'm happy to see new members of PF7263 in discussion and I believe Alexandra also.

On "Хаплогрупа J1-PF7263, покушај историјске реконструкције" we had great cooperation from many people, especially Ljiljan. I'm glad we succeeded in making some sense about origin and spreading our haplogroup.

You also done good job with collecting other PF7263 in different projects. I also tracked for some time other members of Pf7263 but after some time I lost a count :)
About origin of PF7263 your opinion is also mine. I can't say that all PF7263 were Jews when they spread from Levant, but I do believe that ZS4452 were Jew (or territorially very close to Jewish community). For latter spreading I do believe that there carriers were soldiers, merchants or slaves, as most mobile groups of population in antiquity. Also sailors for Mediterranean clusters of PF7263.
For BY38105 you have very interesting pattern of spreading. Whatever was his name, BY38105 looks like very successful man with lots of descendants. I believe that Mesopotamian haplotypes (Kurds, Turkmens, Shia and Suni Arabs) are also positive on BY3815, and that possibility would be very interesting, opening question if our branch belong to same of ancient Jewish tribes captured by Assirians. I know this is very radically but it just looks like that to me.
There is also possibility that carrier of our branch was some Aramean, but for now I go with Jewish theory, (corrected with Phoenician theory in some cases)  :)

I'm not part of FTDNA project (I was tested in local Serbian laboratory), and for some time I'm don't follow FB page of J1 Y-DNA project, so I'm not very familiar with new thoughts about our branch. If I remember correctly, Viktar believed that PF7263 come from Mesopotamia and spread in Levant and Anadolia and further in Europe during Bronze age, but it was few years ago, when we didn't have BigY results. I'm not shore what he think today.
Same thing with clusters. It's clear that somebody do something with new BigY results, because new SNPs are emerging but I don't know who do that. You can wrote Viktar, or FTDNA to get more informations.

I believe that Viktar become tired. I also become tired after some time and need some rest. I hope that he will come back for some time. He has done tremendous job for all J1 haplogroup and make, in my opinion, still best phylogenetic tree for us.

Once again hello and welcome on Poreklo.rs :)

Ван мреже Odisseo

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« Одговор #108 послато: новембар 04, 2018, 08:39:54 поподне »
Radon, thank you very much for your kind answers! Your hypothesis about BY38105 and the Mesopotamian peoples is truly intriguing. I hope it is soon confirmed by the results of other tests.
I will continue my research, and if I have news I will communicate it on this forum.
Let's keep up to date!