Аутор Тема: J1 PF7263 from Greece  (Прочитано 20295 пута)

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J1 PF7263 from Greece
« послато: Јул 02, 2018, 07:17:37 поподне »
Ćao svima!
 
My name is Alexandra and I come from Greece. My father belongs to the paternal haplogroup J1 PF7263. He is Greek too and his paternal family comes from Kephalonia.
I started a thread about it on Anthrogenica some time ago and a nice Serbian guy (thank you BMK!) recommended me to register in your forum in order to ask you about it. There seems to be a Serbian group of this specific subclade, right?
My father has only tested his Y-haplogroup at 23andme where he got broadly J1 as a result. He transferred to Wegene where he was assigned to J1a2a1a1 (another name for the above subclade). Some very helpful guys on Anthrogenica helped me confirm this. So he has done no further testing but we already know he belongs to J1 PF7263.
There are 3 other Greek cases of PF7263 but they belong to three different clusters: one is from Thessaloniki but he has a Turkish-sounding name (Davut?), the other one (Venardos) comes from Kythira (another Ionian island) and the third (Maragoudakis) comes from Crete. Rationally speaking he could be connected to Venardos' cluster since the two islands are geographically not so far from each other and they both belong to the Ionian islands. Or maybe, he is connected to another cluster that would be less rational (you never know!).
I was wondering if any further testing would help us clarify this. BMK suggested I write an e-mail to Y-seq to ask them about it. I already did so and I am waiting for their answer.
In the meanwhile, I wanted to ask you if you happen to have any additional info. As well as introduce myself to you all and to you fellow Serbian J1-PF7263-ers!!
By the way, as of recenlty I am trying to learn Serbian :-) as I decided to learn a new language belonging to some of my newly discovered ancestries :-) Historically speaking, my maternal family's village in Epirus (Ekklisohori/older name Tserkovista) was a Slavic settlement of the Middle Ages (Vajunites) so I decided to learn a Slavic language. I chose Serbian because maybe as a Greek I somewhat felt more connection to the specific culture and also because you write both in Cyrillic and in Latin.
That's it for now! Looking forward to your answers!
Pozdravljam vas!
Alexandra
« Последња измена: Јул 02, 2018, 07:20:57 поподне Alexandra_K »

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« Одговор #1 послато: Јул 02, 2018, 08:29:28 поподне »
Ćao Alexandra, and welcome to our forum!

Your father belongs to one of the rarest J1 subclades, found mostly between Central-Eastern Europe and Middle East. The most recent common ancestor of all members of this clade lived some 3400 years ago, according to Yfull. The only way to find out for sure who are his closest matches, and to which cluster he belongs, is to test Y-STR markers, and you basically have two options to do that:

1. Yseq, Germany, where I would reccomend ordering Alpha-Beta panel ($85), which contains first 37 STR markers (in FTDNA order). You can later order additional panel(s) if you want, without having to send new sample. The results are usually done in about a month-month and a half.

https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=34&osCsid=e3f3e7ecae94b7daac41db35a865e0a9

2. FTDNA, USA, where you can choose between several options (37, 67 or 111 STR markers), but it is fairly more expensive than Yseq. It will probably take them longer to deliver the results, too.

https://www.familytreedna.com/products/y-dna

Although a little outdated, this is still the best and most accurate tree of clade PF7263/ZS4416, but I'm not sure to which of these subclades those other Greeks belong. The subclade to which "Serbian cluster" belongs is above the surname Maksimović.





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« Одговор #2 послато: Јул 02, 2018, 09:36:18 поподне »
Thank you, Црна Гуја! I hadn't realized it was so rare...Interesting...
Below I am copying the comment of this very helpful user on Anthrogenica plus an addition made by another very helpful user :-). It contains some info about the Greek cases too:

So in the FTDNA J1 Project’s tree, PF7263 has two branches, ZS4376 and Z28138.

The ZS4376 is estimated to have formed 3,460 years ago.

There are no cases with only ZS4376; instead there are two further branches.

One is ZS8957. That case is German.

The other branch of ZS4376 is ZS4407. ZS4407 is estimated to have formed 2,998 years ago. There are no cases with just ZS4407; instead there are three further branches.

One is ZS4375. That case is French.

The second is ZS9949. ZS9949 is estimated to have formed 1,758 years ago. There are no cases with just ZS9949; instead there are two further branches. One is a German case, the other is a Croatian case.

The third is ZS10589. ZS10589 is estimated to have formed 2,975 years ago. There are no cases with just ZS10589; instead there are two further branches. One is a Ukrainian case, the other is a Saudi Arabian case.

Besides the extensively tested cases in the tree, many cases which look similar are grouped on the list at https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults. If that clustering is correct, PF7263 has:
— an English and German cluster
— a German cluster
— a Greek cluster of only one person (Yavit of Davut Thessaloniki)
— a Kuwaiti and Iraqi cluster
— an Iraqi, Turkish, and Azerbaijani cluster

ZS4376 has:
— a person named Sliwinski from ?
— a German and Canary Islands cluster
— a French cluster (just one person)
— a Bulgarian cluster (just one person)

ZS9949 has a cluster of German, Croatian, and Bosnian Herzegovinan cases

ZS10589 has:
— a case Maragoudakis from Sassalos Crete
— a case from Spain
— a cluster with cases from Portugal, Ukraine, Lithuania, and Russia
— a cluster with cases from Calabria, Germany, Ukraine, and France
— a Saudi and Yemeni cluster

+ You also have Venardos from Agia Anastasia on island Kythira. he is considered J1 PF7263 cluster D. Main difference between him and Maragoudakis is in DYS390. Maragoudakis have 24 and Venardos 25.

The Alpha-Beta panel sounds like a good deal! So, do you think that it can really result into something more specific (as in a specific branch of J1 PF7263)? I am still waiting for their answer to my e-mail, hoping that they do respond to such inquiries, of course.

Thanks again! Hvala! :-)


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« Одговор #3 послато: Јул 02, 2018, 11:48:48 поподне »
The Alpha-Beta panel sounds like a good deal! So, do you think that it can really result into something more specific (as in a specific branch of J1 PF7263)? I am still waiting for their answer to my e-mail, hoping that they do respond to such inquiries, of course.

Thanks again! Hvala! :-)

You're welcome.

Well, the Alpha-Beta panel is good for starters, it should show which of these clusters your father most closely match, and predict most probable subclade. If that would be the case, the next step would be ordering specific SNP at Yseq to confirm that prediction.

Just a small correction of the above comment you cited from Anthrogenica, there aren't any public Croatian PF7263 results that I know of. I called it "Serbian cluster" for a reason, as it currently consists of about 30 Serbs, mostly from Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia, and 2 Bosniaks.
« Последња измена: Јул 02, 2018, 11:56:39 поподне Црна Гуја »

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« Одговор #4 послато: Јул 03, 2018, 06:42:48 пре подне »
Thank you again! Ok, then it does sound like a good solution... Do you know if ordering the more specific SNP's later could be very expensive? Because I would like to avoid going into very high expenses...Would one have the same or a more specific result with the option of the FTDNA y-37?
Thank you very much for the correction as well! Wow, 30 is a big number, quite interesting! How can their presence in Serbia be explained?
Dobar dan!

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« Одговор #5 послато: Јул 03, 2018, 07:31:34 пре подне »
Thank you again! Ok, then it does sound like a good solution... Do you know if ordering the more specific SNP's later could be very expensive? Because I would like to avoid going into very high expenses...Would one have the same or a more specific result with the option of the FTDNA y-37?
Thank you very much for the correction as well! Wow, 30 is a big number, quite interesting! How can their presence in Serbia be explained?
Dobar dan!

Hello Alexandra and welcome on Poreklo! I'm Radonic ad i'm also J1 PF7263. I wrote something on Anthrogenica as Levantino, but as I said my english is very bad and I did't want shame myself :-X

First about Croatian/Serbian haplotype in FTDNA database. It's our Maksimović. He is from Velika Popina which is in today Croatia but he is ethnic Serb

Second, I belive that panel is best option. We still don't have clear picture about PF7263 part of the J1 tree. For me, basic differance is between those who have 24 on DYS390 and on those who have 25 on DYS390. All people who took BigY were DYS390=24 so we don't know where is the position of those have 25 on DYS390. Scheme up on the page is made on there results. If you father is DYS390-24 than we can place him somwhere in the tree, but if he is DYS390-25 he will probably be PF7263 like on the begining.

We have two popupations on Near east who are carriers of PF7263. One is Al Husseini from North Western Arabia, probably Hijas, and second is from eastern side of Fertile crescent, mstly Kurds, with some Azerbejanis and Turkmens. In thet population there is the biggest variation so I belive that are branch origin from that part of the world. Yavuz from Thesalonike have DYS390-25 what is caracteristic for that population so I belive that his origin is little different that our.

ZS10589 is caracteristic for some Arabian families, but also for same families with Jewish backround. I belive that this haplogroup (and that, in my oppinion include all ZS4407) belong aither to ancient Judeans, or some population between North-western Arabia and southern Izrael who latter become part of Jewish peole (my favorite theory is about Middanite- Kente hypothesis, but it's also possible from population of Edom etc)

There is one intheresting thought. Under PF7263 we have two branches, one is ZS4376 and other is Z28138. The latter is foun between Sardinians in scientific work. Unfortunatly, we don't have STR values so we don't know to whom they are closer. We don't know how they get there. They can be some Jewish group settled during roman time on island, but also could be some Phoenician group who survive roman, and all other conquests. Intherestin thing is, when I read about island Kythera where origin Venardos was thet the island was inhabit by the Phoenicians in ancient time. Just to remember, Venardos have DYS390-25

it's all for now. I must go to work. By by :)


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« Одговор #6 послато: Јул 03, 2018, 08:58:50 пре подне »
 
Hello Radon/Levantino! :-)

Pleased to meet you! Your English is perfect! You shouldn't hestitate at all!

Thank you for the clarification about Maksimovic.

From what I hear, I think that once I have the capital :-) we will go for the panel. So with this panel we will discover if he has DYS390=24 or 25, right? I am a real beginner and I am not sure I get everything, sorry. Will we also understand if he belongs to ZS10589?

Yes, Yavuz sounds like a Turkish name, at least to me. It is definitely not Greek though.

Let's see! It all sounds very interesting, to begin with!

Have a nice day at work!

Alexandra

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« Одговор #7 послато: Јул 03, 2018, 12:44:36 поподне »
Thank you again! Ok, then it does sound like a good solution... Do you know if ordering the more specific SNP's later could be very expensive? Because I would like to avoid going into very high expenses...Would one have the same or a more specific result with the option of the FTDNA y-37?

You shouldn't worry about high expenses, individual SNPs at Yseq cost $18, and you would probably have to order only one. As for FTDNA Y37, you would get exactly the same 37 STR markers, but at higher price.


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« Одговор #8 послато: Јул 03, 2018, 01:22:48 поподне »
Црна Гуја , thank you very much! Ok, I will go for it then. Dobar dan!

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« Одговор #9 послато: Јул 03, 2018, 07:15:51 поподне »
Цитат
So with this panel we will discover if he has DYS390=24 or 25, right?

Yes, that will do. In any case we will know more about possible possition in PF7263 brench

Thank you again! Ok, then it does sound like a good solution... Do you know if ordering the more specific SNP's later could be very expensive? Because I would like to avoid going into very high expenses...Would one have the same or a more specific result with the option of the FTDNA y-37?
Thank you very much for the correction as well! Wow, 30 is a big number, quite interesting! How can their presence in Serbia be explained?
Dobar dan!

I belive that our ancestors came during Roman empire, probably as soldierc, merchents or slaves and successfully survive until this day. During early middle ages, late XIII and early XIV century they exist as katun (small tribe) of Vlahović in the area of western Zachlumia in villages Poplat and Vlahovići

https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82,+%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B0+%D0%B8+%D0%A5%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0/@43.036891,18.0257744,12z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x134b7c7eae380925:0x32d761aa795f67c1!2z0KHRgtC-0LvQsNGGLCDQkdC-0YHQvdCwINC4INCl0LXRgNGG0LXQs9C-0LLQuNC90LA!3b1!8m2!3d43.0851515!4d17.9592754!3m4!1s0x134b7bf431439183:0x7ec304d2f80c96a5!8m2!3d43.031004!4d18.0183506

When Ottomans came, they became martologs (Armatoloi) and go further north and north-west, latter thay change side and fight on Venetian and Habsbourgh soldiers against Turks. They get land for their service and they started spreading there genes. Long story short :)

Good by! Doviđenja!

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« Одговор #10 послато: Јул 03, 2018, 09:40:21 поподне »
Wow, Radonic! What you wrote about the history of the subclade in Serbia is super interesting!  So were the merchants/slaves etc. of for example, Levantine or Phoenician origin?  Afterwards, during the Middle Ages did the Catun Vlahovic have anything to do with actual Vlachs too? Or there is no connection?
The other side of my family (maternal) come from the village Tserkovista (now Ekklisohori) in the area of Ioannina, Epirus. The village was a Vajunite settlement of the Middle Ages (earliest possible,  9th century). It had always belonged to a regional subdivision called Kourenta. Kurent(a) had been the surname of the Slavic Zupan owning or settling at the area. Most of the villages of Kourenta used to have names of Slavic origin like ours. I am writing all this to you, because one of these villages was called Vlachokatouno (Vlahokatuno). It was inhabited by Vlachs until the 17th century if I remember right. My very family must depict theoretically a continuation of this legacy like most of the locals. Of course, especially in my family we also have known Vlach and Arvanite roots.  According to historical sources the Slavic settlers of the area never left but settled for good, having sent away or annihilated most of the local male  population but often marrying to local women who had mostly survived the invasions. So through the centuries they gradually became assimilated culturally, genetically and linguistically.
There might still be some slight evidence of the Slavic legacy in the local dialect and pronounciation, I would think. Also some characteristic elements like the fact that the local surnames (esp. the female ones) would still sound very Slavic . As opposed to the official surnames the locals would refer to each other as follows: Kostayannova, Yannantonova etc. (These are actually the local unofficial surnames of my grandmother and great-grandmother). We also have the surname Detsikas pronounced Dečkas which made me think of dečko, now that I am trying to learn Serbian.
Anyways, I just mentioned this because the katun of  Vlahovic made me think of Vlahokatuno in our area. Nothing to do with my fathers family though 😉
« Последња измена: Јул 03, 2018, 09:46:22 поподне Alexandra_K »

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« Одговор #11 послато: Јул 03, 2018, 09:47:34 поподне »
As far as the panel is concerned, I think that I will order it once I can afford it.

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« Одговор #12 послато: Јул 03, 2018, 10:35:18 поподне »
Doviđenja!!  :)

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« Одговор #13 послато: Јул 04, 2018, 06:38:26 пре подне »
Wow, Radonic! What you wrote about the history of the subclade in Serbia is super interesting!  So were the merchants/slaves etc. of for example, Levantine or Phoenician origin?  Afterwards, during the Middle Ages did the Catun Vlahovic have anything to do with actual Vlachs too? Or there is no connection?

Well, it's my belief that they were soldiers, slaves or merchants :) This groups were most mobile and most numerous travelers in antiquity, so the best probability is that thay belong to some of that groups. We don't have any hard evidence about there existence before XIII century. About origin, my best option is Levantic heritage, most probably Jewish, but I don't exclude some other populations.

On the other side, we have confirmation about conection between J1 PF7263. They were vlachs (in Yugoslav historiography there is a difference between "vlachs" and "Vlachs". "Vlachs" with capitol are romanophonic population, and "vlachs" with small letter are slavicized population in vlach status, with easier contributions to there patrons and greater personal freedoms).
They also served as soldiers (Turks latter take them under there name "voynuk" wich means soldier) what was allways very regarded profession on Balkan. But in XIII century Vlahovićs were slavicized.

Цитат
The other side of my family (maternal) come from the village Tserkovista (now Ekklisohori) in the area of Ioannina, Epirus. The village was a Vajunite settlement of the Middle Ages (earliest possible,  9th century). It had always belonged to a regional subdivision called Kourenta. Kurent(a) had been the surname of the Slavic Zupan owning or settling at the area. Most of the villages of Kourenta used to have names of Slavic origin like ours. I am writing all this to you, because one of these villages was called Vlachokatouno (Vlahokatuno). It was inhabited by Vlachs until the 17th century if I remember right. My very family must depict theoretically a continuation of this legacy like most of the locals. Of course, especially in my family we also have known Vlach and Arvanite roots.  According to historical sources the Slavic settlers of the area never left but settled for good, having sent away or annihilated most of the local male  population but often marrying to local women who had mostly survived the invasions. So through the centuries they gradually became assimilated culturally, genetically and linguistically.
There might still be some slight evidence of the Slavic legacy in the local dialect and pronounciation, I would think. Also some characteristic elements like the fact that the local surnames (esp. the female ones) would still sound very Slavic . As opposed to the official surnames the locals would refer to each other as follows: Kostayannova, Yannantonova etc. (These are actually the local unofficial surnames of my grandmother and great-grandmother). We also have the surname Detsikas pronounced Dečkas which made me think of dečko, now that I am trying to learn Serbian.
Anyways, I just mentioned this because the katun of  Vlahovic made me think of Vlahokatuno in our area. Nothing to do with my fathers family though 😉

That's very intheresting. We were suprised about some slavic haplotypes in today province of Macedonia and Epir. On Balkan, we are all very mixed. Haplotypes close to our Vlahović group we found in anonymus participants of tasting in scientific papers about North Greece , Albania (Gheg population), southern and western Croatia and Slovenia
I know that meny people on this portal are intheresting about slavic heritage in today Epirus and Northern Greece

Pozdrav i svako dobro :)

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« Одговор #14 послато: Јул 04, 2018, 08:37:11 пре подне »
Dobro jutro!

Well, it's my belief that they were soldiers, slaves or merchants :) This groups were most mobile and most numerous travelers in antiquity, so the best probability is that thay belong to some of that groups. We don't have any hard evidence about there existence before XIII century. About origin, my best option is Levantic heritage, most probably Jewish, but I don't exclude some other populations.

Thank you!

On the other side, we have confirmation about conection between J1 PF7263. They were vlachs (in Yugoslav historiography there is a difference between "vlachs" and "Vlachs". "Vlachs" with capitol are romanophonic population, and "vlachs" with small letter are slavicized population in vlach status, with easier contributions to there patrons and greater personal freedoms).
They also served as soldiers (Turks latter take them under there name "voynuk" wich means soldier) what was allways very regarded profession on Balkan. But in XIII century Vlahovićs were slavicized.


Ok, interesting! In Greece Vlachs are like in Serbia the Aromuns who speak their roman-based language. However the term is used also as "vlach" to signify a "villager" in a negative sense (pretty stupid use of the word, as a real partial Vlach I never use it ;-P ).

Yes, I also find it very interesting too and that's why I have researched the Slavic heritage in our area quite a bit. My maternal cousins have not tested yet but I am planning to get one of them tested too, at some point :-). Although in their case, our Arvanite ancestry will probably show as far as the Y-haplogroup is concerned. Our oldest known patrilineal ancestor (unfortunately no documents but oral family tradition), has been Antonis Markou an (Arvanite) Souliot who fled to Tserkovista with his family around the beg. of the 19th century I would think (more or less). According to the family's oral tradition the Markou family belonged to the broader Botsari family and some unkle of my mother says that he keeps some of the Botsaris' weapons in his home as relics. That would be fun to see too, regarding their Y-haplogroup.
Other families of our village (where we are all more or less relatives, haha) might more direclty display a Slavic haplogroup (that is my guess) if no Arvanite or Vlach patrilineal ancestries are involved.
The phenotypes of the village's people are diverse, but one can see much more than on the Greek average, more Northern-like characteristics (skin-hair and eye color etc.). Of course, these can be attributed to many factors (Northern-type Greeks -???, Arvanite and Vlach admixture) but nevertheless, it is quite observable to a curious eye.
In the Balkans we are indeed all very mixed and in a way very close to each other genetically and culturally I would dare say (music, dance, folk poetry, folklore in general, temperament, food, after some point common history etc.). I personally feel my Balkan identity very strongly. Of course, I also embrace a lot my Mediterranean identity which is more connected to the islands my father comes from (Kephalonia and Kea). But, since I was a child, I was spending much more time with my maternal grandparents and was visiting our village every year on vacation so maybe I developed a much stronger emotional affinity to this identity. My heart beats in the Balkans, haha :-)

Pozdrav i svako dobro! ;-)
« Последња измена: Јул 04, 2018, 08:40:47 пре подне Alexandra_K »

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« Одговор #15 послато: Јул 04, 2018, 05:09:43 поподне »


Цитат
Ok, interesting! In Greece Vlachs are like in Serbia the Aromuns who speak their roman-based language. However the term is used also as "vlach" to signify a "villager" in a negative sense (pretty stupid use of the word, as a real partial Vlach I never use it ;-P ).

Intheresting. Vlach had very negative meaning in Croatia, where they use it for Serbian population

Цитат
Yes, I also find it very interesting too and that's why I have researched the Slavic heritage in our area quite a bit. My maternal cousins have not tested yet but I am planning to get one of them tested too, at some point :-). Although in their case, our Arvanite ancestry will probably show as far as the Y-haplogroup is concerned. Our oldest known patrilineal ancestor (unfortunately no documents but oral family tradition), has been Antonis Markou an (Arvanite) Souliot who fled to Tserkovista with his family around the beg. of the 19th century I would think (more or less). According to the family's oral tradition the Markou family belonged to the broader Botsari family and some unkle of my mother says that he keeps some of the Botsaris' weapons in his home as relics. That would be fun to see too, regarding their Y-haplogroup.
Other families of our village (where we are all more or less relatives, haha) might more direclty display a Slavic haplogroup (that is my guess) if no Arvanite or Vlach patrilineal ancestries are involved.
The phenotypes of the village's people are diverse, but one can see much more than on the Greek average, more Northern-like characteristics (skin-hair and eye color etc.). Of course, these can be attributed to many factors (Northern-type Greeks -???, Arvanite and Vlach admixture) but nevertheless, it is quite observable to a curious eye.
In the Balkans we are indeed all very mixed and in a way very close to each other genetically and culturally I would dare say (music, dance, folk poetry, folklore in general, temperament, food, after some point common history etc.). I personally feel my Balkan identity very strongly. Of course, I also embrace a lot my Mediterranean identity which is more connected to the islands my father comes from (Kephalonia and Kea). But, since I was a child, I was spending much more time with my maternal grandparents and was visiting our village every year on vacation so maybe I developed a much stronger emotional affinity to this identity. My heart beats in the Balkans, haha :-)

Pozdrav i svako dobro! ;-)

Well that is very intheresting. I read about Souliotes a little. Very heroic people. My friends are in Parga right now. I told them to visit Zalongo.
It will be very intheresting to know haplogroup of Botsaris. We, on Poreklo tried to find haplogroups of our Serbian heroes of First and Second rise agains Turks, 1804 and 1815.
There is one scientific paper about Y-chromosome variety in Albanian and Arbaresh population, and we were suprised how much slavic haplotypes were in south Albanian population. There is much job for genetic testing in Balkan in the future

Pozdrav

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« Одговор #16 послато: Јул 04, 2018, 05:49:58 поподне »
Ćao,

About Vlach in Croatian: I didn't know, that's not nice....

About the Botsaris family: I know we are related through oral tradition. I also have a DNA relative on AncestryDNA that belongs to a Botsaris family from America. This could be a possible proof. The confidence of the match is good and we are characterized as 5th-8th cousins which could be possible based on the family history. I have written to her but she hasn't answered since she has not logged in to her account for almost a year...:-( I hope to be able to contact her in the future.
I also found a relative with whom we are related through our Arvanitovlachi (Remeni) ancestry (Vlachs that were living in Albania, Kolonje, Dagli). If our guess is correct both families must have belonged to the same broader family which split and some part of it came down to Kourenta while others went to Montenegro and then to Slovenia.
The last interesting clue (of course it remains a hypothesis) is that my father must be also connected to some Arvanite ancestry. He has a lot of Albanian DNA relatives and also gets 5 dots like me at 23andme for Albania. One of his DNA relatives is a Shpati which made me think of the migration of some belonging to the Shpata Arvanite family to Kefalonia. Who knows, if they are connected in this way, it could be possible...

Pozdrav!
« Последња измена: Јул 04, 2018, 05:59:33 поподне Alexandra_K »

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« Одговор #17 послато: Јул 04, 2018, 08:24:44 поподне »
By the way Parga Is very beautiful!
Great of you to know about the Souliotes and Zalongo!

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« Одговор #18 послато: Јул 04, 2018, 08:32:48 поподне »

I also found a relative with whom we are related through our Arvanitovlachi (Remeni) ancestry (Vlachs that were living in Albania, Kolonje, Dagli). If our guess is correct both families must have belonged to the same broader family which split and some part of it came down to Kourenta while others went to Montenegro and then to Slovenia.

Well this is very intheresting. Do you more about part who moved in Montenegro and Slovenia?
We have some surnames wich sound Greek to us, but we haven't have nobody to ask about them :). Does Macura, Mataruga and Krič (Krich) sound familiar to you and do they have some meaning on Greek?

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The last interesting clue (of course it remains a hypothesis) is that my father must be also connected to some Arvanite ancestry. He has a lot of Albanian DNA relatives and also gets 5 dots like me at 23andme for Albania. One of his DNA relatives is a Shpati which made me think of the migration of some belonging to the Shpata Arvanite family to Kefalonia. Who knows, if they are connected in this way, it could be possible...

Pozdrav!

That would be intheresting. Unfortunatly, I haven't saw many Arvanit haplotypes.

Pozdrav

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« Одговор #19 послато: Јул 04, 2018, 08:35:44 поподне »
By the way Parga Is very beautiful!
Great of you to know about the Souliotes and Zalongo!

Some things are not just local. Like the beauty and heroic history. Greece have both