G25 rezultati iz velike studije Akbarija

[Душан]

Distance to:   Filipi
0.01669296   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I46991.TW
0.01711823   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:S47627_Fluffle.19_SQ.TW
0.01711929   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I42042.TW
0.01745334   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I47271.TW
0.01752750   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I43476.TW
0.01813745   Balkan_MA_East:Akbari2026:I40600.TW
0.01842602   Pannonia_EIA:Akbari2026:I35650.TW
0.01867300   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I41539.TW
0.01874507   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I34823.TW
0.01881141   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I41945.TW
0.01893598   Pannonia_Magyar_euro:Akbari2026:I47221.TW
0.01953104   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I43472.TW
0.01960027   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:S47484_Fluffle.18_SQ.TW
0.01970659   Balkan_MA_East:Akbari2026:I41010.TW
0.01976605   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:S47544_Fluffle.20_SQ.TW
0.01980695   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I44663_preQC.TW
0.01989011   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I44512.TW
0.02006878   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I43401.TW
0.02013711   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I43467.TW
0.02022543   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I41761_preQC.TW
0.02027554   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I35566.TW
0.02037771   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I43137.TW
0.02042351   Pannonia_EIA:Akbari2026:S47623_Fluffle.19_SQ.TW
0.02043913   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:S47579_Fluffle.19_SQ.TW
0.02059922   Slavic_South:Akbari2026:I40980.TW


Target: Filipi
Distance: 0.0039% / 0.00003946 | R3P
72.2   Slavic_South
17.2   Balkan_MA_East
10.6   Greece_BA_Epirus

Можеш ли да поставиш извор за те координате?

[CosicZ]

Ово су неки који ми изгледају занимљиво:
I24124.AG   N-FGC28460   U3a2a1
I47038.TW   I-FGC22061   U5b1b1a
I47242.TW   I-FTA75664   U2e2a1
I47313.TW   J-Y22063   H41a
I47371.TW   R-FT223890   T1a1l
I47174.TW   E-BY34244   W1
I47006.TW   I-FT109380   H6a1a
I47050.TW   I-FT109380   K2
I47054.TW   I-FT109380   K2
I47356.TW   I-Y58629   J1c1
I47044.TW   J-FTF52902   HV0a
I26692.AG   R-FTF96751   U5b1a
I26720.AG   R-FTF96751   T2c1a
I26735.AG   R-FT83437   J1c12
I26969.AG   R-A10971   T2a1a
I28867.AG   E-Y258117   W3a1c
I28874.AG   E-Y258117   H14a+146
I28892.AG   E-Y258117   U2e1
I28953.AG   E-Y258117   H1a
I38879.TW   E-Y258117   R0a1a
I46362.TW   E-Y258117   H14a+146
I46368.TW   E-Y258117   H7c1
I31633.TW   E-BY28614   H1
I47323.TW   J-FTE81178   J2a1a1e
S47702_Fluffle.20_SQ.TW   J-FTE81178   H13a1a1a
S47861_Charm.51_SQ.TW   E-PH631   T2b
S47863_Charm.51_SQ.TW   E-PH631   U5b1b

Поједини узорци из ове студије су се појавили овде:
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-CTS1595/tree
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-FT398695/tree
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-Y5586/tree
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-L618/tree
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-PF7562/tree
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-FT270447/tree

[kocovic]

Gornji upadaju mahom u slovenski klaster, u sredini je par otomansko-turskih, dole su mahom razliciti balkanski profili (osim poslednja dva koja su Sloveni)

PS. Morao sam da ih razdvojim u dva komentara tako da se ovo odnosi na uniformnu listu.

Код: [Изабери]

I24124.AG,0.087644,0.126941,-0.0445,-0.029393,-0.038161,-0.001673,0.008695,-0.007615,-0.048677,-0.020775,0.000487,0.008393,-0.005798,-0.003028,-0.000407,0.002784,-0.002477,0.002027,0.002514,-0.001626,-0.010357,0.000618,0.007888,0.004097,0.000599
I47038.TW,0.125205,0.137096,0.052043,0.036176,0.031698,0.013108,0.0094,0.009461,0.003477,-0.010205,-0.004709,-0.003447,0.009366,0.013074,-0.008415,-0.002387,0.007302,-0.004814,0.004777,-0.007379,-0.003119,-0.000124,0.001725,-0.006145,0.001437
I47242.TW,0.133173,0.137096,0.057699,0.039729,0.040623,0.014502,0.008225,0.005307,0.001432,-0.004738,0.001949,-0.009591,0.01442,0.026424,-0.007872,-0.0118,-0.015255,0.0019,0.002388,0.003502,-0.001622,-0.006554,0.000616,-0.006386,-0.000838
I47313.TW,0.122929,0.142174,0.035826,0.012597,0.034468,0.006693,0.003055,0.003923,0.007158,-0.005649,0.002273,-0.001499,0.004311,0.010872,-0.013572,-0.003447,0.009127,-0.001647,0.006285,-0.002626,-0.00262,-0.00371,0.001725,0.006266,-0.007305


[kocovic]

Код: [Изабери]

I47371.TW,0.124067,0.138112,0.039975,0.011628,0.033237,0.001673,0.011516,0.006,0.0045,0.002916,0.002598,-0.004796,0.005203,0.010872,-0.010858,-0.001458,0.014473,0.003547,0,-0.001751,-0.00836,0.001855,0.006039,-0.00012,-0.003832
I47174.TW,0.127482,0.139128,0.047517,0.023902,0.038776,0.007251,0.000705,0.003692,-0.001227,0.002916,-0.001299,0.001649,-0.000446,0.018304,-0.009365,-0.010872,-0.008345,0.000887,0.003142,-0.007253,-0.002121,-0.000247,0.003944,-0.000843,-0.000838
I47006.TW,0.130897,0.13405,0.059208,0.051034,0.040623,0.017849,0.00094,0.007615,0.006749,-0.003645,0.00065,-0.008692,0.007136,0.016239,-0.004479,0.005436,0.001565,0,0.007039,0.00025,-0.007736,-0.004204,0.000246,-0.003133,-0.000718
I47050.TW,0.126344,0.132019,0.056191,0.052972,0.036314,0.025937,0.00893,0.013153,-0.000818,-0.016401,-0.005196,-0.004946,0.012042,0.009771,-0.005022,0.002121,0.009127,-0.002787,0.006536,0.000375,-0.008235,-0.000742,0.002342,0.00253,-0.001676
I47054.TW,0.126344,0.133034,0.061848,0.041667,0.044008,0.015897,0.00564,0.013153,0.002454,-0.00328,-0.003248,-0.004196,0.003717,0.005092,-0.00475,0.007955,0.013038,-0.005574,-0.002011,0.008504,-0.002496,0.004822,0.003574,0.000482,-0.002036
I47356.TW,0.124067,0.127957,0.050157,0.034561,0.032314,0.01004,0.008225,0.008769,0.001636,-0.001822,-0.013803,-0.006444,0.0055,0.017065,-0.010043,-0.015115,-0.010691,0.001267,0.005279,0.003877,-0.006239,0,0.004683,-0.00735,0.001557
I47044.TW,0.0774,0.033512,-0.081835,0.023902,-0.025851,0.018686,0.00235,0.005538,0.025156,0.016219,-0.002111,0.002847,-0.006541,0.009358,-0.015744,0.000796,0.026468,0.000127,0.003897,-0.000125,-0.004243,-0.00371,0.000246,-0.001687,-0.00455
I26692.AG,0.124067,0.159438,0.018102,-0.020349,0.032929,-0.013108,0.001645,0.000923,0.013499,0.036994,0.002761,0.013788,-0.026759,0.003991,-0.012758,-0.006364,0.004694,0.00076,0.003142,-0.010255,-0.008984,-0.006183,0.001232,-0.000602,0.000359
I26720.AG,0.127482,0.152329,0.025644,-0.017442,0.033545,-0.009761,-0.002115,-0.002769,0.015339,0.038634,0.004222,0.009292,-0.019326,-0.002202,-0.007736,0.003447,0.020992,0.003801,0.003645,-0.001,0.004243,0.002597,-0.002711,-0.004699,0.001078
I28867.AG,0.113823,0.15436,0.003771,-0.023902,0.017234,-0.014223,0.00376,-0.003,-0.001841,0.022233,-0.000974,0.002847,-0.009812,-0.001239,-0.007057,-0.011403,-0.016168,0.003927,-0.00264,-0.012881,-0.003119,-0.00136,0.004807,-0.001566,-0.001437
I28874.AG,0.111547,0.149283,-0.00528,-0.033269,0.020311,-0.011435,0.003995,-0.00923,0.004704,0.024602,-0.00065,0.007194,-0.019326,-0.008533,-0.006786,0.006895,0.024512,-0.002154,-0.000628,0.003126,-0.002121,0.000124,-0.007518,0.003615,-0.002275
I28892.AG,0.112685,0.142174,-0.003771,-0.034884,0.01508,-0.019522,0.00094,-0.008538,-0.005727,0.022051,0.00406,0.007194,-0.01442,-0.003991,-0.015201,0.006895,0.018384,-0.001774,-0.005656,0.004252,-0.006489,0.00507,-0.000123,-0.008314,-0.002275
I28953.AG,0.104717,0.151314,0.001886,-0.024871,0.014156,-0.012829,0.00141,-0.005769,0.00409,0.023873,-0.002923,0.007343,-0.017691,-0.004817,0.001493,0.001591,0.004694,0.000127,-0.000754,-0.003877,-0.004991,-0.001113,0.000616,-0.001084,-0.003952
I38879.TW,0.1161,0.149283,0.001508,-0.034238,0.020004,-0.020359,0.00705,-0.007846,0.00634,0.027882,-0.003573,0.005695,-0.004906,-0.01156,-0.010722,0.008884,0.019818,-0.002027,0.003771,0.000375,0.001497,-0.000247,-0.003328,-0.003856,0.003592
I46362.TW,0.118376,0.145221,0.007542,-0.029393,0.023081,-0.001952,0.000705,-0.000462,0.01084,0.021686,0.005846,0.012289,-0.012042,0.006055,0.000271,-0.008486,-0.0103,0.005068,0.002011,0.002751,0.001872,0.00136,-0.004437,0.00976,-0.005987
I46368.TW,0.102441,0.138112,-0.001508,-0.027778,0.018157,-0.017849,0.001175,-0.004384,0.007158,0.023873,0.006658,0.003147,-0.00892,-0.00523,-0.006107,0.005967,0.017341,0.001014,0.002514,0.005878,0.003494,0.003586,-0.001972,0.003012,-0.001078
I31633.TW,0.114961,0.146236,0.000754,-0.030039,0.01908,-0.018686,-0.003525,-0.003461,0.011044,0.02934,0.00406,0.009442,-0.013082,-0.003303,-0.014522,0.004243,0.01343,0.003547,-0.003645,-0.001,-0.004243,-0.000618,-0.003328,-0.003012,-0.000359
I47323.TW,0.121791,0.139128,0.033187,0.014535,0.036007,0.011156,0.005875,0.010153,0.0045,0.006378,-0.000974,0.001349,0.001784,0.01156,-0.017644,-0.001458,0.008605,-0.007728,0.002388,-0.003627,-0.005989,0.001855,-0.001849,0.000723,-0.005628
S47702_Fluffle.20_SQ.TW,0.121791,0.129988,0.015462,-0.003876,0.023081,-0.002231,0.00329,0.008769,-0.000614,0.018041,0.003085,0.005245,0.001635,0.007294,-0.018322,-0.003978,0.009127,0.00038,0.004274,-0.0005,-0.001123,0.002844,-0.003821,-0.004217,0.000958
S47861_Charm.51_SQ.TW,0.132035,0.129988,0.058077,0.034238,0.039084,0.014781,0.006815,0.008077,0.003068,-0.006378,0.000812,-0.006444,0.002973,0.026148,-0.009636,-0.0118,-0.008214,-0.003421,0.000628,-0.002626,-0.001996,0.000618,0.002465,-0.006748,-0.000718
S47863_Charm.51_SQ.TW,0.120652,0.137096,0.05242,0.036822,0.042162,0.011435,0.00752,0.013384,0.001023,-0.010752,-0.003085,-0.005545,0.014866,0.016652,-0.008822,0.002519,0.005215,-0.002787,0.011439,-0.003377,-0.008485,-0.000618,0.001109,-0.002771,0.000958

[barbarylion]

Ovi rezultati bi trebalo da su dosta bitni za nas, u vecini ovih podgrana se nalaze Srbi.
Koliko sam skapirao ne zna se jos odakle su ovi uzorci, ali kod raznih Y3120, i PH908 pogotovo se vide pojačan uticaj slovenske genetike, nešto više nego kod nas danas, što je i logično jer su Srbi( oni slovenskog porekla), kroz vekove ipak dosta izmešani sa plemenima koja su zatekli ovde, dok su recimo rimokatolici manje mesani sa tim paleobalkanskim faktorom, stoga je logično da među njima autosomalna bliskost bude veća, mada ipak mislim da je za određivanje porekla bitnija raspodela podgrana, dubina i raznovrsnost.

[Imoćanin]

U datasetu su na primjer 47 I2a-PH908, po autosomalnoj slici većina njih su sigurno stariji od 800 godina. Na PCA to izgleda ovako:

[barbarylion]

U datasetu su na primjer 47 I2a-PH908, po autosomalnoj slici većina njih su sigurno stariji od 800 godina. Na PCA to izgleda ovako:

Mislim da su to zastareli srpski proseci.
Većina ljudi odavde nije u tim prosecima koji su pravljeni.
Sve u svemu to je potpuno logično rekao bih, Srbi su se više mešali sa paleobalkancima vremenom, za PH908 mislim da nam vise moze reci dubina i raznovrsnost od autosomala.

[Imoćanin]

Ja koristim samo znanstvene uzorke, nema tu ništa biti zastarjelo.

Osim toga, ovdje su podaci za moderne uzorke samo bitni radi orijentacije, važno je da većina ovih novih uzoraka pada van prostora modernih uzoraka sa zapadnog Balkana.

[kocovic]

Ja koristim samo znanstvene uzorke, nema tu ništa biti zastarjelo.

Osim toga, ovdje su podaci za moderne uzorke samo bitni radi orijentacije, važno je da većina ovih novih uzoraka pada van prostora modernih uzoraka sa zapadnog Balkana.

Ovi PH908 uglavnom upadaju u klaster koji je vezan za južniji deo ranih Slovena, dok manje njih pada u klaster sa Slovenima avarskog perioda u Panoniji.

[barbarylion]

Ja koristim samo znanstvene uzorke, nema tu ništa biti zastarjelo.

Osim toga, ovdje su podaci za moderne uzorke samo bitni radi orijentacije, važno je da većina ovih novih uzoraka pada van prostora modernih uzoraka sa zapadnog Balkana.

Čuj nema ništa biti zastarelo Lol.
Bukvalno niko od nas odavde nije uvršten u te uzorke, al znanstveni su tako što ih je prikupio neki Grk? Po kom osnovu su naučni, gde su objavljeni u kom naučmom radu moderni uzorci za Srbe i Hrvate? To me baš zanima.

[Imoćanin]

Čuj nema ništa biti zastarelo Lol.
Bukvalno niko od nas odavde nije uvršten u te uzorke, al znanstveni su tako što ih je prikupio neki Grk? Po kom osnovu su naučni, gde su objavljeni u kom naučmom radu moderni uzorci za Srbe i Hrvate? To me baš zanima.

Kakav Grk, o ćemo ti to.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867423011352

"1.   Present-day newly reported individuals
We collected genetic material from 37 unrelated Serb individuals from Serbia (n=19), Montenegro (n=7), Croatia (n=5), North Macedonia (n=1) and Bosnia and Herzegovina (n=5)."

Nisam znao da su znanstvenici iz Srbije koji su sudjelovali u ovom radu “Grci”.

[kocovic]

Kakav Grk, o ćemo ti to.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867423011352

"1.   Present-day newly reported individuals
We collected genetic material from 37 unrelated Serb individuals from Serbia (n=19), Montenegro (n=7), Croatia (n=5), North Macedonia (n=1) and Bosnia and Herzegovina (n=5)."

Nisam znao da su znanstvenici iz Srbije koji su sudjelovali u ovom radu “Grci”.

Jesu li G25 za Srbe i Hrvate simulirane ili prave?

[Imoćanin]

Jesu li G25 za Srbe i Hrvate simulirane ili prave?

Ma prave, ovi i jedan set iz starijeg rada se koriste u svakom značajnom radu zadnjih godina i na svim univerzitetima koji se bave ovom tematikom.

[kocovic]

Ma prave, ovi i jedan set iz starijeg rada se koriste u svakom značajnom radu zadnjih godina i na svim univerzitetima koji se bave ovom tematikom.

Ako si koristio prave koordinate trebalo bi da bude precizno, ali simulirane znaju značajno da promaše. Primera radi, dobijao sam sa simuliranim da upadam u severnoitalijanski ili švajcarski klaster, dok u pravim koordinatama nisam ni blizu.

[Imoćanin]

Svi uzorci su ti u Vahaduo modern scaled setu, zaista ne razumijem odakle ove sumnje u te znanstvene uzorke?

[kocovic]

Svi uzorci su ti u Vahaduo modern scaled setu, zaista ne razumijem odakle ove sumnje u te znanstvene uzorke?

U nauci je zapravo sumnja u verodostojnost podataka potpuno očekivana. Konkretan primer vezan za Vahaduo podatke, video sam za Makedonce par uzoraka koji gotovo da nemaju šanse da su Makedonci koji potiču od 4 praroditelja (baba i deda) iz Makedonije (prevelik udeo slovenske genetike na nivou nekog ko je iz Srbije, Bosne, Moldavije ili pojedinih delova Bugarske).

[Бакс]

Морате мало почети да отварате теме с неким објашњењем или појашњењем, јер овде има већ две стране разноразног писанија, а ја и даље појма немам нити о чему је тема нити о чему се ради

[нцп]

Морате мало почети да отварате теме с неким објашњењем или појашњењем, јер овде има већ две стране разноразног писанија, а ја и даље појма немам нити о чему је тема нити о чему се ради

https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi:10.7910/DVN/7RVV9N

Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia

[kocovic]

Морате мало почети да отварате теме с неким објашњењем или појашњењем, јер овде има већ две стране разноразног писанија, а ја и даље појма немам нити о чему је тема нити о чему се ради

U pitanju su ovi uzorci:
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB106907


Aligned sequencing data from 10,016 ancient individuals generated as part of Akbari et al. 2026 are provided here. These include 367 newly reported shotgun ancient genomes and capture data from 9,649 individuals, derived from 18,397 ancient DNA libraries. The capture data primarily represent 9,426 previously unreported individuals, with additional libraries improving coverage for 223 individuals. Laboratory work was performed using established ancient DNA protocols, with sequencing carried out on Illumina NextSeq500, HiSeq X10, and NovaSeq X platforms.

Odabrali smo neke konkretne Y-DNK i mtDNK grane prisutne kod nas zajedno sa njihovim G25 koordinatama. G25 koordinate ti pokazuju gde ti arheo-uzorci stoje u odnosu na druge populacije (u autosomalnoj genetici, dakle sveukupno gledano).

[filipi]

Sa drugog foruma.
"Pojedinci iz ranog avarskog razdoblja (otac i "miješani" sin) iz Cika. Oboje pripadaju I-S17250/I-Y3548."

Udaljenost do: Father_Cik_483-603_calCE:I35000.TW_g25_sim
0.01779757 Litavski_RA
0.01784421 Litavski_VA
0.01897375 Litavski_PA
0.02022498 Bjeloruski
0.02028073 Litavski_VZ
0.02172079 Ruski_Smolensk
0.02178194 Ruski_Pskov
0.02405134 Ruski_Kaluga
0.02466354 Litavski_SZ
0.02506647 Ukrajinski_Černihiv
0.02612872 Latvijski
0.02618686 Ruski_Voronjez
0.02631225 Litavski_PZ
0.02647595 Estonski
0.02698644 Russian_Kursk
0.02751014 Russian_Orel
0.02816211 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02893402 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02899542 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.02930083 Russian_Belgorod
0.02969670 Russian_Tver
0.03017726 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.03106362 Russian_Yaroslavl
0.03258666 Russian_Ryazan
0.03264244 Polish_Kashubian

Udaljenost do: Son_Cik_450-650_AD:I34989.TW_g25_sim
0.02988417 Moldavski
0,03440816 bosanski
0,03816466 Pomački_Rodopi_0.03903062
Srpski
0.04025377 Crnogorski
0.04071051 Hrvatski
0.04184261 Rumunjski
0.04286678 Bugarski
0.04305281 Gagauški
0.04306289 Makedonski
0.04341578 Ukrajinski_Zakarpatje
0.04347254 Pomački_Podunavski_ravnjak
0.04493935 Slovenski
0.04553879 Mađarski 0.04774376
Moldavski_o
0.04863808 Turska_Zapadna_Makedonija
0.04897450 Turski_Deliorman
0.05009023 Austrijski
0.05060022 Grčka_Istočna_Makedonija_i_Trakija
0.05167889 Pomak_Tikveška_ravnica
0.05177322 Turska_Sjeverna_Makedonija
0.05198198 Ukrajinski_Lavov
0.05299080 Pomak_Almopska_ravnica
0.05454817 Češki
0.05602229 Njemački_Erlangen