Balkanski kontinuitet (Gvozdeno doba – Rim – Sloveni) – G25

[kocovic]

Ne znam šta imaju u svojoj kolekciji uzoraka, možda nemaju zapadnu Anatoliju? U svakom slučaju p vrednost mora da bude veća ili jednaka 0.05 da bi prošla nulta hipoteza, a poželjno je još i da Z vrednosti budu istog reda veličine i SE (standardne greške) oko ili ispod 0.05.

[OneLove]

Ne znam šta imaju u svojoj kolekciji uzoraka, možda nemaju zapadnu Anatoliju? U svakom slučaju p vrednost mora da bude veća ili jednaka 0.05 da bi prošla nulta hipoteza, a poželjno je još i da Z vrednosti budu istog reda veličine i SE (standardne greške) oko ili ispod 0.05.

Ima nego po njemu ako bi koristio “West Anatolia” dolazi to preklapanja. Preklapaju se sa staro balkancima.

[kocovic]

Ima nego po njemu ako bi koristio “West Anatolia” dolazi to preklapanja. Preklapaju se sa staro balkancima.

Sklonio sam ADMIXTOOLS i obrisao Rahjovu bazu sa kompjutera pa ne mogu da proverim da li ima preklapanja. Ono čega se sećam je da sam mogao Albance da modelujem jedino kao: Balto-Sloven kasna antika + Mikenci bronzano doba + Zapadna Anatolija. Mikenci su dosta slični Tračanima, Paeoncima i Dardancima, a to je nešto sto bi odgovaralo Roman_Moesia grupi ovde u ovom G25 kalkulatoru.

[НикПав]

То једино могу да разумем ако је та компонента "скоријег" датума (након миграције Словена) - можда негде од Византијског до раног Отоманског периода. Стварно не знам, јер колико видим ти си једини са таквом компонентом. Евентуално неки досељеници у току Рима, али који су остали у изолацији дуго времена (нешто попут Јевреја можда?).

Ако хоћеш можда могу да ти пронађем неке од узорака из римског периода Балкана који имају већи источномедитерански-левантски уплив па да их испробаш?

Може све Кочовићу, мене јако копка ко се ту углавио, а видим да ми то долази по мами са југа, тетка по мами на 23андме и деда по мами на МХ скупљају те Арапе или можда не Арапе али људе из арапског света за поклапања. Ја имам теорију да је то неки ехо косовских Египћана (Ашкалија), али нико од мојих не добија Роме као резултат, па можда и грешим. Иначе, на МХ је деди Ашкалија најближи рођак, али испало је да је дедина баба тетка од Максимовића побегла у Митровицу за једног, што значи да нисмо били гадљиви на мешовите бракове.

[kocovic]

Може све Кочовићу, мене јако копка ко се ту углавио, а видим да ми то долази по мами са југа, тетка по мами на 23андме и деда по мами на МХ скупљају те Арапе или можда не Арапе али људе из арапског света за поклапања. Ја имам теорију да је то неки ехо косовских Египћана (Ашкалија), али нико од мојих не добија Роме као резултат, па можда и грешим. Иначе, на МХ је деди Ашкалија најближи рођак, али испало је да је дедина баба тетка од Максимовића побегла у Митровицу за једног, што значи да нисмо били гадљиви на мешовите бракове.

Dodaj onda:

Код: [Изабери]

Balkan_Roma_MA,0.0899202,0.0667712,-0.0607165,0.0124355,-0.0154642,0.011295,0.00141,0.0024805,0.013294,0.0174948,0.0010555,-0.0015362,0.0019698,0.0073285,-0.014522,-0.012596,0.003716,-0.000982,0.0013825,-0.001313,0.0024018,0.0038332,0.0017562,0.0025608,-0.000868

Dakle:

Код: [Изабери]

Balkan_Roma_MA,0.0899202,0.0667712,-0.0607165,0.0124355,-0.0154642,0.011295,0.00141,0.0024805,0.013294,0.0174948,0.0010555,-0.0015362,0.0019698,0.0073285,-0.014522,-0.012596,0.003716,-0.000982,0.0013825,-0.001313,0.0024018,0.0038332,0.0017562,0.0025608,-0.000868
Slavic_Pannonia,0.1354494,0.1280293,0.0769191,0.0697334,0.0427551,0.0257376,0.0090981,0.0145214,-0.0006501,-0.0260468,-0.002488,-0.0095648,0.018832,0.0252194,-0.0119918,-0.0020315,0.0020022,-0.0005791,0.0025994,0.002586,-0.0042159,-0.0057321,0.0081124,-0.0079743,-0.0006116
Byzantine_West_Anatolia,0.10778005,0.15009515,-0.031170673,-0.063771945,0.00095125455,-0.023076945,-0.00024785455,-0.0052361455,-0.0048564545,0.019658273,0.0035489273,0.0033815273,-0.0064194545,0.0021518909,-0.013840982,-0.0022901818,0.0071924545,0.00090527273,0.0047742727,-0.0042247455,-0.0044194727,0.0024056364,-0.0013579273,0.000035127273,-0.0012541091
Roman_Moesia,0.1236478,0.1524362,0.0177247,-0.024327,0.0305806,-0.0101136,0.0007916,0.0005101,0.0067708,0.026712,0.0015127,0.0077063,-0.0110478,-0.0014269,-0.0149722,-0.0056945,0.0089896,-0.0001866,0.0064569,-0.0075694,-0.0079399,0.0021281,-0.0001168,0.002207,-0.0020797


[kocovic]

Ili bolje ovo:

Код: [Изабери]

Balkan_Roma_MA,0.0899202,0.0667712,-0.0607165,0.0124355,-0.0154642,0.011295,0.00141,0.0024805,0.013294,0.0174948,0.0010555,-0.0015362,0.0019698,0.0073285,-0.014522,-0.012596,0.003716,-0.000982,0.0013825,-0.001313,0.0024018,0.0038332,0.0017562,0.0025608,-0.000868
Slavic_Pannonia,0.1354494,0.1280293,0.0769191,0.0697334,0.0427551,0.0257376,0.0090981,0.0145214,-0.0006501,-0.0260468,-0.002488,-0.0095648,0.018832,0.0252194,-0.0119918,-0.0020315,0.0020022,-0.0005791,0.0025994,0.002586,-0.0042159,-0.0057321,0.0081124,-0.0079743,-0.0006116
Roman_Moesia,0.1236478,0.1524362,0.0177247,-0.024327,0.0305806,-0.0101136,0.0007916,0.0005101,0.0067708,0.026712,0.0015127,0.0077063,-0.0110478,-0.0014269,-0.0149722,-0.0056945,0.0089896,-0.0001866,0.0064569,-0.0075694,-0.0079399,0.0021281,-0.0001168,0.002207,-0.0020797
Georgian_Tbilisi_(n=7),0.10861957,0.12984257,-0.06174,-0.049649714,-0.039787429,-0.0061354286,0.010071714,-0.0090985714,-0.059048857,-0.019004571,0.0026447143,0.011175857,-0.022235429,0.001966,-0.000038857143,-0.015456143,0.010635714,-0.0032397143,-0.0098584286,0.019491429,0.014581286,0.0026145714,-0.001655,-0.0073675714,-0.0022238571
Armenian_(n=15),0.10431924,0.13737819,-0.054668967,-0.060580267,-0.028774547,-0.01492484,0.00359736,-0.0067357067,-0.02952218,-0.0029992533,0.0025984667,0.00071836,-0.0028632667,0.0029967333,-0.0047218933,-0.0029256133,-0.00071486667,0.00080158667,0.0019276,-0.0020438267,0.0018134667,0.0027594067,-0.0034319467,-0.0016467067,-0.00037924667
Tatar_(n=17),0.10960076,0.0098744118,0.063919118,0.045210824,-0.0052166471,0.0084447647,0.0087821176,0.0096974706,-0.0075767059,-0.023156765,0.0042075882,-0.0061076471,0.014193353,-0.0061032941,-0.0084650588,-0.0056932941,-0.0029577059,-0.0019591176,-0.0064569412,-0.005944,-0.0019375882,0.00017282353,-0.0056301176,0.0010301765,0.0010037059
Romaniote_(Yevanic_Jew)_(n=7),0.092033857,0.14406014,-0.025805714,-0.064553857,0.0050117143,-0.023068,-0.0058414286,-0.0043184286,0.009145,0.018536,0.0056138571,0.0011132857,0.0019961429,-0.00019642857,-0.0068247143,-0.0015722857,0.00072642857,-0.0024975714,-0.00073628571,-0.00050042857,-0.00087342857,0.00038857143,0.00036985714,0.0010844286,0.0013341429
Ovde će Vizantija da ti se podeli na 3 komponente: Gruzin + Jermen + Romaniot Jevrej, a kao zasebna 4. komponenta će biti Romi.

[НикПав]

Dodaj onda:

Код: [Изабери]

Balkan_Roma_MA,0.0899202,0.0667712,-0.0607165,0.0124355,-0.0154642,0.011295,0.00141,0.0024805,0.013294,0.0174948,0.0010555,-0.0015362,0.0019698,0.0073285,-0.014522,-0.012596,0.003716,-0.000982,0.0013825,-0.001313,0.0024018,0.0038332,0.0017562,0.0025608,-0.000868

Dakle:

Код: [Изабери]

Balkan_Roma_MA,0.0899202,0.0667712,-0.0607165,0.0124355,-0.0154642,0.011295,0.00141,0.0024805,0.013294,0.0174948,0.0010555,-0.0015362,0.0019698,0.0073285,-0.014522,-0.012596,0.003716,-0.000982,0.0013825,-0.001313,0.0024018,0.0038332,0.0017562,0.0025608,-0.000868
Slavic_Pannonia,0.1354494,0.1280293,0.0769191,0.0697334,0.0427551,0.0257376,0.0090981,0.0145214,-0.0006501,-0.0260468,-0.002488,-0.0095648,0.018832,0.0252194,-0.0119918,-0.0020315,0.0020022,-0.0005791,0.0025994,0.002586,-0.0042159,-0.0057321,0.0081124,-0.0079743,-0.0006116
Byzantine_West_Anatolia,0.10778005,0.15009515,-0.031170673,-0.063771945,0.00095125455,-0.023076945,-0.00024785455,-0.0052361455,-0.0048564545,0.019658273,0.0035489273,0.0033815273,-0.0064194545,0.0021518909,-0.013840982,-0.0022901818,0.0071924545,0.00090527273,0.0047742727,-0.0042247455,-0.0044194727,0.0024056364,-0.0013579273,0.000035127273,-0.0012541091
Roman_Moesia,0.1236478,0.1524362,0.0177247,-0.024327,0.0305806,-0.0101136,0.0007916,0.0005101,0.0067708,0.026712,0.0015127,0.0077063,-0.0110478,-0.0014269,-0.0149722,-0.0056945,0.0089896,-0.0001866,0.0064569,-0.0075694,-0.0079399,0.0021281,-0.0001168,0.002207,-0.0020797


Слаба вајда од овога

Target: Nikola_scaled
Distance: 2.8965% / 0.02896492
45.0   Slavic_Pannonia
40.2   Roman_Moesia
14.8   Byzantine_West_Anatolia

Ово друго већ даје резултате, али је дистанца већа него код овог првог калкулатора и додатно ми обара словенско наслеђе:

Target: Nikola_scaled
Distance: 2.9111% / 0.02911086
44.6   Roman_Moesia
43.6   Slavic_Pannonia
11.0   Romaniote_(Yevanic_Jew)_(n=7)
0.8   Armenian_(n=15)

 

[kocovic]

Слаба вајда од овога

Target: Nikola_scaled
Distance: 2.8965% / 0.02896492
45.0   Slavic_Pannonia
40.2   Roman_Moesia
14.8   Byzantine_West_Anatolia

Ово друго већ даје резултате, али је дистанца већа него код овог првог калкулатора и додатно ми обара словенско наслеђе:

Target: Nikola_scaled
Distance: 2.9111% / 0.02911086
44.6   Roman_Moesia
43.6   Slavic_Pannonia
11.0   Romaniote_(Yevanic_Jew)_(n=7)
0.8   Armenian_(n=15)

Pa dobro, nemaš romsko ili drugo zapadnoazijsko nasleđe, a ovo znači da iako imaš povećan istočni Mediteran i Levant da je to nasleđe iz predrimskog perioda najverovatnije. Kod mene se slično podeli Vizantija na uglavnom grčke Jevreje + minimalno Jermene. Da imaš romske pretke dobio bi ovu kategoriju za Rome. Ako sumnjaš da imaš nekog iz Egipta (kao što si rekao) trebaš dosta pažljivo da biraš neku izolovanu populaciju jer generalno Arapi imaju preklapanja sa istočnim Mediteranom. Možda neke Berbere ili alžirske Jevreje.

[НикПав]

Pa dobro, nemaš romsko ili drugo zapadnoazijsko nasleđe, a ovo znači da iako imaš povećan istočni Mediteran i Levant da je to nasleđe iz predrimskog perioda najverovatnije. Kod mene se slično podeli Vizantija na uglavnom grčke Jevreje + minimalno Jermene. Da imaš romske pretke dobio bi ovu kategoriju za Rome. Ako sumnjaš da imaš nekog iz Egipta (kao što si rekao) trebaš dosta pažljivo da biraš neku izolovanu populaciju jer generalno Arapi imaju preklapanja sa istočnim Mediteranom. Možda neke Berbere ili alžirske Jevreje.

Никад не добијамо Роме, зато сам и био опрезан са том ашкалијско косовском теоријом.

[kocovic]

Никад не добијамо Роме, зато сам и био опрезан са том ашкалијско косовском теоријом.

Probaj i ovo:

Код: [Изабери]

LevantEgypt_IA,0.044391,0.149283,-0.0486485,-0.1040065,-0.001385,-0.039742,-0.010575,0.0002305,0.043666,0.0066515,0.01088,-0.010865,0.0289145,-0.001101,0.0037325,-0.005569,-0.008279,-0.001077,-0.005719,0.0079415,0.0138505,0.0022875,-0.001972,-0.000361,-0.000838
Arabia_historic_Yemen_Soqotra_Medieval,0.0485224,0.1291979,-0.0676303,-0.106136,-0.0153988,-0.0447052,-0.0114807,-0.0070339,0.0567592,-0.0044006,0.0118844,-0.027259,0.0554724,0.0029359,0.0051824,0.0180273,-0.0166987,0.0044904,0.0021508,0.0210241,0.0117617,0.0093106,-0.0073036,0.0007096,-0.004546


[НикПав]

Probaj i ovo:

Код: [Изабери]

LevantEgypt_IA,0.044391,0.149283,-0.0486485,-0.1040065,-0.001385,-0.039742,-0.010575,0.0002305,0.043666,0.0066515,0.01088,-0.010865,0.0289145,-0.001101,0.0037325,-0.005569,-0.008279,-0.001077,-0.005719,0.0079415,0.0138505,0.0022875,-0.001972,-0.000361,-0.000838
Arabia_historic_Yemen_Soqotra_Medieval,0.0485224,0.1291979,-0.0676303,-0.106136,-0.0153988,-0.0447052,-0.0114807,-0.0070339,0.0567592,-0.0044006,0.0118844,-0.027259,0.0554724,0.0029359,0.0051824,0.0180273,-0.0166987,0.0044904,0.0021508,0.0210241,0.0117617,0.0093106,-0.0073036,0.0007096,-0.004546


Делимично ради и најмања је дистанца од свих других али ипак велика:

Target: Nikola_scaled
Distance: 2.8890% / 0.02889006
49.0   Roman_Moesia
43.4   Slavic_Pannonia
5.0   LevantEgypt_IA
2.6   Armenian_(n=15)

[kocovic]

Делимично ради и најмања је дистанца од свих других али ипак велика:

Target: Nikola_scaled
Distance: 2.8890% / 0.02889006
49.0   Roman_Moesia
43.4   Slavic_Pannonia
5.0   LevantEgypt_IA
2.6   Armenian_(n=15)

Ne radi dobro jer je distanca i dalje značajno preko 2.5. Problem kod tebe je najverovatnije što ti je loše izračunat G25, možda je čak problem i u samom DNK testu ukoliko ti ne prolazi DNK rezultat ni sa jednom populacijom u širem krugu oko Srbije i Balkana. Možeš da probaš i neke druge populacije van ovoga o čemu smo pričali ali sumnjam da će da ti se promeni distanca, pre će biti problem u ovome što sam rekao.

[НикПав]

Ne radi dobro jer je distanca i dalje značajno preko 2.5. Problem kod tebe je najverovatnije što ti je loše izračunat G25, možda je čak problem i u samom DNK testu ukoliko ti ne prolazi DNK rezultat ni sa jednom populacijom u širem krugu oko Srbije i Balkana. Možeš da probaš i neke druge populacije van ovoga o čemu smo pričali ali sumnjam da će da ti se promeni distanca, pre će biti problem u ovome što sam rekao.

Ја добијам јако пуно Грка па и Шиптара за поклапање, тако да врв има нечега и ту, Кочовићу. А имам и та егзотична поклапања из арапског света, није то за џабе, а зашто је тако, време ће показати ваљда.

[Владимир Жуњанин]

Hayastan

[OneLove]

Distance: 2.3469% / 0.02346902
55.0   Roman_Moesia
38.8   Slavic_Pannonia
6.2   Georgian_Tbilisi_(n=7)
0.0   Arabia_historic_Yemen_Soqotra_Medieval
0.0   Armenian_(n=15)
0.0   Balkan_Roma_MA
0.0   Byzantine_West_Anatolia
0.0   LevantEgypt_IA
0.0   Romaniote_(Yevanic_Jew)_(n=7)
0.0   Tatar_(n=17)

[kocovic]

Ја добијам јако пуно Грка па и Шиптара за поклапање, тако да врв има нечега и ту, Кочовићу. А имам и та егзотична поклапања из арапског света, није то за џабе, а зашто је тако, време ће показати ваљда.

Ja mislim da sam dobio sve Albance koji su ikad radili ovaj test  Grke ređe, ali mi se javljaju. Arapi i drugi mi se ne javljaju, samo neki nemački Jevreji, međutim kalkulatori mi to uglavnom ubace u neki nemački udeo.

[Небојша]

Мање-виши исти резултат добијем коју год романску компоненту да ставим. Распоред је исти. Али је појединачно у Distance (што је најважније), најближа Roman_West_Illyria. Користим иначе G25 који је добијен на основу RAW са 23andMe V5. Прочитао сам да је он поузданији за G25 координате од FTDNA, даје стабилнију PCA позицију. О симулацији са K36 да не говоримо, то је већ доста непоуздано.

Изгледа да је RAW са FTDNA компатибилнији са G25, односно даје стабилније позиције. О томе је чини ми се писао и Давидски. Не знам шта је неко опште мишљење. Ако упоредим резултате на основу FTDNA raw, добије се просек који је типичнији за Јужне Словене (уже Србе).

[Dime Dimeski]

Ili bolje ovo:

Код: [Изабери]

Balkan_Roma_MA,0.0899202,0.0667712,-0.0607165,0.0124355,-0.0154642,0.011295,0.00141,0.0024805,0.013294,0.0174948,0.0010555,-0.0015362,0.0019698,0.0073285,-0.014522,-0.012596,0.003716,-0.000982,0.0013825,-0.001313,0.0024018,0.0038332,0.0017562,0.0025608,-0.000868
Slavic_Pannonia,0.1354494,0.1280293,0.0769191,0.0697334,0.0427551,0.0257376,0.0090981,0.0145214,-0.0006501,-0.0260468,-0.002488,-0.0095648,0.018832,0.0252194,-0.0119918,-0.0020315,0.0020022,-0.0005791,0.0025994,0.002586,-0.0042159,-0.0057321,0.0081124,-0.0079743,-0.0006116
Roman_Moesia,0.1236478,0.1524362,0.0177247,-0.024327,0.0305806,-0.0101136,0.0007916,0.0005101,0.0067708,0.026712,0.0015127,0.0077063,-0.0110478,-0.0014269,-0.0149722,-0.0056945,0.0089896,-0.0001866,0.0064569,-0.0075694,-0.0079399,0.0021281,-0.0001168,0.002207,-0.0020797
Georgian_Tbilisi_(n=7),0.10861957,0.12984257,-0.06174,-0.049649714,-0.039787429,-0.0061354286,0.010071714,-0.0090985714,-0.059048857,-0.019004571,0.0026447143,0.011175857,-0.022235429,0.001966,-0.000038857143,-0.015456143,0.010635714,-0.0032397143,-0.0098584286,0.019491429,0.014581286,0.0026145714,-0.001655,-0.0073675714,-0.0022238571
Armenian_(n=15),0.10431924,0.13737819,-0.054668967,-0.060580267,-0.028774547,-0.01492484,0.00359736,-0.0067357067,-0.02952218,-0.0029992533,0.0025984667,0.00071836,-0.0028632667,0.0029967333,-0.0047218933,-0.0029256133,-0.00071486667,0.00080158667,0.0019276,-0.0020438267,0.0018134667,0.0027594067,-0.0034319467,-0.0016467067,-0.00037924667
Tatar_(n=17),0.10960076,0.0098744118,0.063919118,0.045210824,-0.0052166471,0.0084447647,0.0087821176,0.0096974706,-0.0075767059,-0.023156765,0.0042075882,-0.0061076471,0.014193353,-0.0061032941,-0.0084650588,-0.0056932941,-0.0029577059,-0.0019591176,-0.0064569412,-0.005944,-0.0019375882,0.00017282353,-0.0056301176,0.0010301765,0.0010037059
Romaniote_(Yevanic_Jew)_(n=7),0.092033857,0.14406014,-0.025805714,-0.064553857,0.0050117143,-0.023068,-0.0058414286,-0.0043184286,0.009145,0.018536,0.0056138571,0.0011132857,0.0019961429,-0.00019642857,-0.0068247143,-0.0015722857,0.00072642857,-0.0024975714,-0.00073628571,-0.00050042857,-0.00087342857,0.00038857143,0.00036985714,0.0010844286,0.0013341429
Ovde će Vizantija da ti se podeli na 3 komponente: Gruzin + Jermen + Romaniot Jevrej, a kao zasebna 4. komponenta će biti Romi.

Target: Dime_Kichevo_Macedonian_Puke_Albanian_Simulated
Distance: 0.9336% / 0.00933589
62.4   Roman_Moesia
23.6   Slavic_Pannonia
8.4   Armenian_(n=15)
5.6   Romaniote_(Yevanic_Jew)_(n=7)

Distance to:   Dime_Kichevo_Macedonian_Puke_Albanian_Simulated
0.03122400   Roman_Moesia
0.08978472   Romaniote_(Yevanic_Jew)_(n=7)
0.11516186   Slavic_Pannonia
0.11904852   Armenian_(n=15)
0.13207754   Balkan_Roma_MA
0.14506440   Georgian_Tbilisi_(n=7)
0.16468686   Tatar_(n=17)

[barbarylion]

Target: Barbarylion256
Distance: 1.1695% / 0.01169523 | ADC: 0.25x RC
54.6   Slavic_Pannonia
45.4   Roman_Moesia

Meni uvek isto ispada, izgleda sa samo dve komponente imam od ovih ponuđenih.

[filipi]

Target: Filipi
Distance: 0.8720% / 0.00872034 | ADC: 0.25x RC
52.2   Slavic_Pannonia
41.8   Roman_Moesia
3.4   Armenian_(n=15)
2.0   Balkan_Roma_MA
0.6   Georgian_Tbilisi_(n=7)


Distance to:   Filipi
0.06962609   Slavic_Pannonia
0.07342319   Roman_Moesia
0.13151929   Romaniote_(Yevanic_Jew)_(n=7)
0.14270067   Tatar_(n=17)
0.14466252   Balkan_Roma_MA
0.15374468   Armenian_(n=15)
0.17180716   Georgian_Tbilisi_(n=7)