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Дискусије на страним језицима => English language subforum => Тему започео: Dime Dimeski Август 11, 2025, 02:06:43 поподне
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[HELP] Tracing Ancestry in Ohrid, Kičevo & Albania (19th century) – Seeking Origins of Specific Ancestors and Families
Hi everyone,
I'm currently researching several lines of my family ancestry and would truly appreciate any help, insights, or suggestions. The families in question originate from the Ohrid and Kičevo regions (Macedonia) and from Korçë and Pukë (Albania), with migrations taking place during the 19th century.
This research is based on family oral history, personal investigations, and some historical sources (including the work of Toma Smiljanić on the Kičevo region).
Nedelko – my earliest known ancestor on my father's side
Born around the middle of the first half of the 19th century, likely in the village of Laktinje (Debarca, Ohrid region).
Lived there for some time and worked for free for a local Ottoman bey, likely as a bonded laborer or dependent.
According to family tradition, he committed a serious act (possibly killing a Turk) and had to flee. He moved through Kladnik, then to Trebino (Poreče), and finally settled in Rečani-Čelopečko (Kičevo region) where he founded the family line known as Nedelkovci.
He had a son named Stojche, whose son Nikodin is my direct ancestor.
Family slava (patron saint day): St. George (Sveti Gjorgjija), which we celebrate on the 8th and 9th of December.
🔍 I am seeking information about:
The exact origin of Nedelko – from which village or which family name/lineage might he have come?
His ethnic origin – was he indigenous Macedonian (autocthonous), Slavic, or of another background?
Reasons for his migration – was he fleeing political persecution, escaping poverty, avoiding Ottoman punishment, etc.?
2. Konstantin – grandfather of my grandmother's great-grandfather
Originated from the Ohrid region, most likely from a rural or mountain village.
His grandson Trene (my grandmother's great-grandfather) moved to Rečani (Kičevo region) from Trebino (Poreče) in the second half of the 19th century and founded the family line known as Trenevci.
Family slava (patron saint day): St. George (Sveti Gjorgjija)
🔍 I am seeking information about:
The village and family name that Konstantin may have belonged to.
His ethnic background – autochthonous Macedonian, Slavic settler, or otherwise.
Reasons for the family’s migration from the Ohrid region to Kičevo.
3. The Mijailevci – family of my great-grandmother Vasilka Mijaileska
Vasilka was born in 1885 in the village of Orlanci (Kičevo region).
Her family, the Mijailevci, originally came from Kladnik around the end of the 18th century or the beginning of the 19th century.
Family slava (patron saint day): St. Nicholas (Sveti Nikola)
🔍 I am seeking information about:
The original village and family connections of the Mijailevci in Kladnik.
Their ethnic background – were they native Macedonians, Slavs, or something else?
The reason for their migration from Kladnik to Orlanci – economic pressure, displacement, inheritance, etc.?
4. Kolle – great-grandfather of my mother’s father (Albanian side)
Originated from Korçë (southeastern Albania).
Moved to Pukë, specifically the village of M’zi, around the late 19th century.
He is the earliest known ancestor in the Alia line (my maternal grandfather’s line).
Family patron saint day: St. Peter and Paul
🔍 I am seeking information about:
Which family name or clan in Korçë Kolle might have belonged to?
His ethnic background – autochthonous Albanian (Illyrian), Slavic, Vlach?
Why he migrated to Pukë – political pressure, Ottoman military conscription, blood feuds, or other historical factors?
➕ Additional Notes:
Funeral Custom (father’s side Nedelkovci): – A gold coin was traditionally placed in the mouth of the deceased. This is believed to be a survival of an ancient custom widely practiced by southern Paleo-Balkan peoples.
Physical Traits (for possible genealogical or anthropological links): – Father’s side (Nedelkovci): Generally short to medium height, thick dark brown hair, brown eyes, dense facial/body hair (strong brows, beard, moustache), dark olive skin with variations, broad nose, and early hair graying. Freckles are rare.
– Mother’s side (Alia family): Medium height, with dark brown hair and eyes being most common, but also includes blond and reddish tones. Skin tone varies, often slightly darker, and the facial structure is typically Illyrian (strong jaw, defined cheekbones). Freckles are also rare here. Early hair graying is rare.
Any help – documents, surnames, church records, historical context, or suggestions on where to look next – would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance! 🙏
I originally made a Reddit post, but someone suggested to post here to find some answers.
On my fathers side following solely the male side, we've had changed our last names patronymically. Our earliest known last name was Stojcheski (Stojchev), then Nikodinoski, and currently Dimeski. Before Stojcheski, the last names didn't end with -ski, -ov, -ev, -ikj,
-ich... for example: Shapkarev-Shapkar, Prlichev-Prliche, Grupchev-Grupche, Vezenkov-Vezenko... this was specifically common in south western Macedonia where the majority of the population still had kept a lot of pre Slavic elements, prior to the slavicization of their ancestors. Today Macedonians from Albania still use last names like that. I am also interested to find out my Y-haplogroup (i have not done a test yet), if someone who shares the same direct paternal ancestor as me (which we both descend from), and has done a DNA test please let me know which Y-haplogroup do you belong to. Any kind of information would be appreciated. You could also ask me additional questions.
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Добро, Диме, еве неколку дополнителни прашања за тебе:
Спомена дека твоето татковско презиме се менувало од Стојчески → Никодиноски → Димески, а порано било без словенските наставки. Дали знаеш дека ваквите патронимски промени биле сосема вообичаени кај православните Словени во регионот, и не се доказ сами по себе за некакви „предсловенски елементи“?
Ако твојот Y-ДНК тест покаже хаплогрупа типична за јужнословенските популации, дали сè уште ќе се сметаш за „претежно предсловенски“ — или ќе ја прилагодиш семејната приказна?
Како ќе реагираш ако твојата директна машка линија се совпадне со српски, бугарски или црногорски семејства — некои дури со иста слава како твојата?
Вели дека сакаш да најдеш некој што „ја дели истата директна татковска линија“ и има направено тест — но што ако резултатите на таа личност укажуваат на миграција или етнички идентитет што не го очекуваш?
Дали крајната цел ти е да ја дознаеш вистината за своето потекло, или да најдеш научно изгледачка потврда за „автохтониот македонски“ наратив?
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Since you live abroad, the best first step would be to take a Y-DNA test to determine your direct paternal haplogroup. I recommend either Big Y-700 (FamilyTreeDNA.com) or Whole Genome Sequencing (WGS) test from a reliable company, such as YSEQ.net, Sequencing.com or DNAComplete.com. After testing, upload your raw data to YFull.com, which will provide additional analysis and place you on the phylogenetic tree of human kind. That way, you will see tested people (country of origin, language) who share the most recent common ancestor with you.
It would also be useful to share your STR marker values with us at the Serbian DNA Project, so we can check if you have close matches with other tested people in our database. This might also give you clues about related male lineages and possible common ancestors.
As my colleague Небо_Сав already told you, when researching family history, you should keep open mind. DNA can sometimes reveal surprising or unexpected connections, so my advice is to conduct family ancestry research without any prejudice or expectations about your ancestors (e.g. "autochthonous Macedonians", "Illyrians" etc.). Among hundreds or even thousands of descendants of a person who lived 1000 years ago, some may now be Macedonians, some Serbs, some Bulgarians, some Albanians, some Greeks etc.
You should know who you are before taking a DNA test, instead of taking DNA test to "find out who you are". DNA test should help you understand migratory paths of your distant and recent ancestors, and discover connections with other families and tribes who share the same male ancestor with you, and not for "assigning" you your ethnic or national identity.
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Добро, Диме, еве неколку дополнителни прашања за тебе:
Спомена дека твоето татковско презиме се менувало од Стојчески → Никодиноски → Димески, а порано било без словенските наставки. Дали знаеш дека ваквите патронимски промени биле сосема вообичаени кај православните Словени во регионот, и не се доказ сами по себе за некакви „предсловенски елементи“?
Ако твојот Y-ДНК тест покаже хаплогрупа типична за јужнословенските популации, дали сè уште ќе се сметаш за „претежно предсловенски“ — или ќе ја прилагодиш семејната приказна?
Како ќе реагираш ако твојата директна машка линија се совпадне со српски, бугарски или црногорски семејства — некои дури со иста слава како твојата?
Вели дека сакаш да најдеш некој што „ја дели истата директна татковска линија“ и има направено тест — но што ако резултатите на таа личност укажуваат на миграција или етнички идентитет што не го очекуваш?
Дали крајната цел ти е да ја дознаеш вистината за своето потекло, или да најдеш научно изгледачка потврда за „автохтониот македонски“ наратив?
By reading your reply i sense that you are a little bit offended (i don't know why). In my family description i just stated some facts and questions, at the end i just told some interesting facts i found out by reading old Ottoman censuses, and other books. I don't know what is your point? So what if i found out that my Y-Haplogroup is not native to Macedonia, that's not going to change anything i am still going to identify as a Macedonian, the Y-Haplogroup is just one little part of your DNA, at the end of the day we are all mixed, there aren't any nations that have only one Y-haplogroup in their country, most countries are formed by different people that migrated to the same region in different periods. I didn't say that i deny having any Slavic ancestry, i just feel more connected to the Paleo-Balkan part of my ancestry based on what i know (i have a right to have my own opinion), but i don't deny the Slavic ancestry. So in your opinion the native Paleo-Balkan ancestry doesn't matter? The native Paleo-Balkan DNA and Y-Haplogroups are the most dominant (around 2/3) throughout every Macedonian region with minor differences (Paleo-Balkan ancestry being a little more numerous in western and southern Macedonia). I am just seeking the truth, i didn't say anything different, it seems that you have misunderstood me. If you know any information that could help me, please share it with me, if not have a good day!
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Since you live abroad, the best first step would be to take a Y-DNA test to determine your direct paternal haplogroup. I recommend either Big Y-700 (FamilyTreeDNA.com) or Whole Genome Sequencing (WGS) test from a reliable company, such as YSEQ.net, Sequencing.com or DNAComplete.com. After testing, upload your raw data to YFull.com, which will provide additional analysis and place you on the phylogenetic tree of human kind. That way, you will see tested people (country of origin, language) who share the most recent common ancestor with you.
It would also be useful to share your STR marker values with us at the Serbian DNA Project, so we can check if you have close matches with other tested people in our database. This might also give you clues about related male lineages and possible common ancestors.
As my colleague Небо_Сав already told you, when researching family history, you should keep open mind. DNA can sometimes reveal surprising or unexpected connections, so my advice is to conduct family ancestry research without any prejudice or expectations about your ancestors (e.g. "autochthonous Macedonians", "Illyrians" etc.). Among hundreds or even thousands of descendants of a person who lived 1000 years ago, some may now be Macedonians, some Serbs, some Bulgarians, some Albanians, some Greeks etc.
You should know who you are before taking a DNA test, instead of taking DNA test to "find out who you are". DNA test should help you understand migratory paths of your distant and recent ancestors, and discover connections with other families and tribes who share the same male ancestor with you, and not for "assigning" you your ethnic or national identity.
I actually live in Macedonia, and i plan to take a DNA test in the future. I know a decent part of my family history, but i am still missing a lot that's why i made this post. I didn't assume who i descend from, that was a question that i want answered. I am open minded because i have done some research and i have a vague picture of what to expect. The DNA test would just add the missing peace's to the puzzle. If you know any information about some of my family history i would be very grateful if you could share it, if not have a good day!
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There's approximately 0% change you'll find the origins of your ancestors that way. Do the autosomal and Y-DNA tests, have your relatives do them too. Then you might start building some ancestry map, although I doubt even in 15th century population in wider region of Macedonia was separated between Slavs and other older population such as Vlachs. It seems to me like the Slavs merged with locals dead on spot, before early Slavic states in Balkans.
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There's approximately 0% change you'll find the origins of your ancestors that way. Do the autosomal and Y-DNA tests, have your relatives do them too. Then you might start building some ancestry map, although I doubt even in 15th century population in wider region of Macedonia was separated between Slavs and other older population such as Vlachs. It seems to me like the Slavs merged with locals dead on spot, before early Slavic states in Balkans.
Yes, i want to take a DNA test, but i am also curious to find other information that isn't connected to the genetics. I also want to find someone that might be related to me (based on the given information), maybe if that person has done a DNA test they can tell me information that i don't know. In your opinion which DNA testing company would be the best option for me? And lastly, i want to thank you for trying to help me!
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Yes, i want to take a DNA test, but i am also curious to find other information that isn't connected to the genetics. I also want to find someone that might be related to me (based on the given information), maybe if that person has done a DNA test they can tell me information that i don't know. In your opinion which DNA testing company would be the best option for me? And lastly, i want to thank you for trying to help me!
AncestryDNA, MyHeritage, FamilyTreeDNA, or LivingDNA. Basically whatever allows you to send your saliva sample abroad from Macedonia with minimal effort (because due to customs you might have trouble). That's for autosomal test. For Y-DNA you could do FamilyTreeDNA, or alternatively if you want two-in-one check for companies like DNA Complete. But have in mind it comes with extra effort to extract your autosomal DNA from WGS file, as well as to send your file to some specialized Y-DNA testing companies like yfull, to have your Y haplogroup deeply analyzed.
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I actually live in Macedonia, and i plan to take a DNA test in the future. I know a decent part of my family history, but i am still missing a lot that's why i made this post. I didn't assume who i descend from, that was a question that i want answered. I am open minded because i have done some research and i have a vague picture of what to expect. The DNA test would just add the missing peace's to the puzzle. If you know any information about some of my family history i would be very grateful if you could share it, if not have a good day!
Ако живиш у (Северној) Македонији, онда претпостављам да ти је матерњи језик македонски, што значи да без већих проблема можеш да разумеш шта ми овде пишемо, као што и ми можемо без већих проблема да разумемо македонски. Мислим да нема потребе да пишеш на енглеском, слободно пиши на македонском, 99% људи ће разумети шта пишеш.
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Ако живиш у (Северној) Македонији, онда претпостављам да ти је матерњи језик македонски, што значи да без већих проблема можеш да разумеш шта ми овде пишемо, као што и ми можемо без већих проблема да разумемо македонски. Мислим да нема потребе да пишеш на енглеском, слободно пиши на македонском, 99% људи ће разумети шта пишеш.
Не пишуа на Македонски оти сака сите да ме разберат ко ќе лафа. Еми ако сакате ќе почна да пишуа на Македонски, за мене немат
никаков проблем. Ако го прочита то што го напишав и ако знајш било какви рабоќе поврзани со то, те мола ди споделиш со мене, ако незнајш имај асален ден. Сполај ти што се интересираше да коментираш.
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Не пишуа на Македонски оти сака сите да ме разберат ко ќе лафа. Еми ако сакате ќе почна да пишуа на Македонски, за мене немат
никаков проблем. Ако го прочита то што го напишав и ако знајш било какви рабоќе поврзани со то, те мола ди споделиш со мене, ако незнајш имај асален ден. Сполај ти што се интересираше да коментираш.
Ја сам те разумео без већих проблема, мада ми се чини да не пишеш стандардним књижевним македонским, можда грешим. У суштини са мном можеш и тако да пишеш, али увек је ту и Гугл преводилац за случај да неком није јасна нека реч или израз. Ради како желиш, само мислим да је излишно писати на енглеском када се међусобно прилично добро разумемо. Нажалост немам неких додатних информација у вези саме теме. Саветовао бих ти једино да, ако већ ниси, погледаш и радове Јована Трифуноског, пошто се он студиозно бавио етнографским изучавањем простора данашње Македоније. Пријатан дан и теби.
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Ја сам те разумео без већих проблема, мада ми се чини да не пишеш стандардним књижевним македонским, можда грешим. У суштини са мном можеш и тако да пишеш, али увек је ту и Гугл преводилац за случај да неком није јасна нека реч или израз. Ради како желиш, само мислим да је излишно писати на енглеском када се међусобно прилично добро разумемо. Нажалост немам неких додатних информација у вези саме теме. Саветовао бих ти једино да, ако већ ниси, погледаш и радове Јована Трифуноског, пошто се он студиозно бавио етнографским изучавањем простора данашње Македоније. Пријатан дан и теби.
Не пишујв на стандардниот Македонски јазик, го користев кическиот дјалект од Рабетинска Река (село Речани). Арно, тогај ќе си пишуа на Македонски, но ќе си го користа мојот дјалект оти ми е најубав. Сполај ти за советите, и ти да си имаш убав ден.
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Све ок бато, разумемо се ❤️