Here are also just a few local words which could be of Slavic origin according to some uncle of mine that I happened to ask:zakon/i - laws in Serbian
An unkle of mine just told me a few other words we are using and he considers to be Slavic.
"Γενικά υπάρχουν λίγα μικροτοπωνύμια και πολλές ονοματοδωσίες παλαιών αγροτικών εργαλείων, 'όπως σβάρνα, κόσα,κούρβα. Πολύ συνηθηζόταν η λέξη ζακόνι = συνήθεια αλλά και άγραφος νόμος!..."
He writes that there are a few microtoponyms as well as a lot of names of agricultural tools such as svarna, kosa, curva...he also mentions the word zakoni= habit but also unwritten law. I don't know if they are indeed of Slavic origin? I will try to gather other words too that older people might be using.
I also know we use glava, ververitsa and goustera.
Zelista: zeleno?
Rahovitsa/ Riahovo (see Arahovistsa): place with walnutsOrahovo / Orahovica would be Serbo-Croatian, if this helps
Tserkovista/ Tsarkovista: Slavic "Cerkov"+ ista, area with churchesCrkvište in Serbo-Croatian, but common Slavic could give Cerkovišta
Tserkovista/ Tsarkovista: Slavic "Cerkov"+ ista, area with churches
Zitsa: Slavic, soul or borderThis toponym could have something to do with the Žiča monastery in Serbia (I assume it is named after the village it is situated in near Kraljevo).
Sioutista: was founded by Souliotes (Arvanites) that fled to the area as Sioutista from the Slavic name of the mountain "Kasidiaris" which refers to a goat without horns
"Based on this, the largest group of Slavic invaders must have settled to the west of today's village in the position "Selio" which means village, where there was according to the inhabitants' tradition, the most ancient church of the area, dedicated to Saint Taxiarches. Of course, the Slavic invaders settled all over the village, by displacing or annihilating the weaker local residents, from whom only the women survived, who through intermarriage secured many racial qualities of the natives, with first and foremost the passing down of the Greek language to new generations".[/i]
...
Blana: probably some tool, but also used metaphorically to describe somebody who lacks energy, eg. is dragging his feet while walking
Thank you very much, НиколаВук!
These are really important additions to what I have already read. It seemed like a little strange to me that the whole male population would be annihilated but the women would survive and marry to the Slavs. Hehe....:-) What you say about the zadrugas is very interesting!
Our village is not mountainous, it is approximately 300 m. from sea level with a lot of small agricultural plots and grazing areas around. It is built in a way at the side of the Kalamas river. Out of curiosity I will try to understand if other villages with Slavic names from our area are also mostly in plains and valleys. It is very probable.
Interesting about Sioutista. Actually people from the broader area can pronounce "Sh" - and a lot ;-) That's why I sometimes think that it can be a leftover from an old Slavic identity. We just have to write it as Si- because there is no letter in Greek to symbolize this sound. For example, my grandmother's official :-) surname is Sioula (matronymic meaning family of a lady called Soula) but we pronounce it as "Shula".
It is very interesting that the Slavic dialect would have survived that long, makes sense...What do you think about our "unofficial" female surnames? Could be a reminiscent of the Slavic past?
I didn't know about these barely surviving dialects, thank you! Then, yes, they must be related, most probably. Are these dialects more connected to Macedonian/Bulgarian too?
Pozdrav!
Oljer, thank you. Yes, that must be it. My mother mentioned that the tool was wooden and that they were probably dragging it on the soil or something. She has the idea that they might have been attaching it to a horse, but she was not sure. And she said that if someone drags himself around like that with no energy they were calling him blana.
I managed to find an older answer of Mr Lithoksou, in which he explains that in the middle of the 19th century they were speaking Greek in the village of Tserkovista. According to him the old Slavic population became assimilated and kind of died out gradually because of diseases. I am probably oversimplifying what he said by translating it here, I am afraid.
Another author, Kyritsis, says on the other hand (might be a little too extreme?) that the ancient Greek population of the area had been almost annihilated by Romans and diseases :-) and that the Slavs took over the area later almost completely replacing the older population. So that when the Albanians came during the 14-15th centuries they ust found the hellenized Slavs in the area. A few Greek scholars seem to agree with each other though, that when the Albanians came the Slavs were already speaking Greek but were retaining all of their Slavic toponyms. The toponyms were maintained until the 20th century!
Dobro jutro!
Here is a list of words of Slavic origin in Greek in general (not restricted to our area):
(My mom has highlighted the words my grandparents were using too)
ΣΛΑΒΙΚΕΣ ΛΕΞΕΙΣ ΣΤΑ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΑ ΟΤΙ ΚΙΤΡΙΝΟ ΤΟ ΧΡΗΣΙΜΟΠΟΙΟΥΣΕ Η ΜΑΝΑ ΜΟΥ
αγκιτάτορας
ασβός
αστρέχα [το γείσο της στέγης]
βάβω/μπάμπω
βαγένι
βάλτος
βαρδάρης
βεδούρα [ξύλινο δοχείο για το γάλα]
βερβερίτσα
βίδρα
βίτσα
βλάχος
βοεβόδας
βολοδέρνω [κατά το ΛΚΝ μόνο, ο Μπαμπινιώτης παράγει τη λέξη από τον βώλο του χώματος]
βότκα
βρικόλακας
γιάφκα
γκλάβα
γκλαβανή [η καταπακτή]
γκορτσιά
γουστερίτσα
γράνα [χαντάκι]
γρεντιά [ξύλινο δοκάρι]
ζαβλακώνομαι [κατά Μπαμπινιώτη μόνο, το ΛΚΝ παράγει από ζαβώνω+βλακώνω]
ζαλίκι [φορτίο, και ρ. ζαλικώνω/ζαλώνω]
ζούζουλο [ζωύφιο]
ιντελιγκέντσια
καρβέλι
καρούτα [ποτίστρα για τα ζώα]
καρτόφι [πατάτες στα ποντιακά]
καστραβέτσι [αγγούρι]
κλούβιος [κατά ΛΚΝ, ο Μπαμπινιώτης εκφράζει επιφυλάξεις]
κνούτο
κολεκτίβα
κολχόζ
κόρα
κόσα [γεωργικό κοπτικό εργαλείο]
κοτσάνι [ο Μπαμπινιώτης θεωρεί πως είναι τουρκικό δάνειο, πιθανώς σλαβικής απώτερης αρχής]
κοτσίδα [ο Μπαμπινιώτης δίνει ελληνική ετυμολογία]
κουλάκος
κουνάβι
κούρκος
κουρνιάζω
κουτάβι
λακκούβα [με παρετυμολογία προς τον λάκκο]
λόγγος
λούτσα [κατά Μπαμπινιώτη είναι αλβανικό δάνειο]
μαγούλα
μαζούτ [το ΛΚΝ το θεωρεί δάνειο από αγγλ. ή γαλλικά, ρωσικής αρχής]
μενσεβίκος
μισίρκα [γαλοπούλα στα σερρέικα]
μόρα
μουζίκος
μουντός
μπαλαμούτι
μπάρα [με τη σημασία ‘λάκκος με νερά, λιμνούλα’]
μπέμπελη
μπολσεβίκος
μπουχός
μπράτιμος
μπροστέλα [με παρασύνδεση με τη λέξη ‘μπροστά’]
νομενκλατούρα
ντιρεκτίβα
ντόμπρος
οβορός [περιφραγμένη αυλή]
πάπρικα
περεστρόικα
πέστροφα [παρετυμ. σύνδεση με το «επιστρέφω»]
πιροσκί
πλάβα [βάρκα λιμνίσια χωρίς καρίνα]
πλόσκα [ξύλινο φλασκί]
πογκρόμ
προβοκάτσια
πρόγκα
ραβάνι [το ρυθμικό βάδισμα αλόγου, ο πλαγιοτροχισμός]
ραβασάκι
ρεκάζω
ρήσος [ο λύγκας]
ρούβλι
ρούχο
σαμοβάρι
σανός
σβάρνα
σέμπρος
σμερδάκι [χαμοδράκι, είδος ξωτικού]
σοβιέτ
σουβάλα [φυσικός ταμιευτήρας νερού]
σπούτνικ
στούμπος
τζόρας
τραντάζω [ο Μπαμπινιώτης δίνει και ελληνική εκδοχή]
τρόικα
τσαντίλα [το αραιοφαμένο σακούλι]
τσάρος
τσέλιγκας
τσέργα [βελέντζα]
τσίπα
τσίτσα [ξύλινο δοχείο για κρασί]
φράξια
χουγιάζω
https://goo.gl/images/vLPJ7D
Is this accurate?
And this?
Y-DNA haplogroups of Greeks by region of origin
Northern Greeks (Thrace & Macedonia) (296 samples)
I : 21.6
R1a : 18.2
R1b : 13.2
E1b : 20.6
G2 : 4.7
J2 : 14.9
J1 : 3.4
LT : 2.7
* : 0.7
Central Greeks (Epirus & Thessaly) (127 samples)
I : 12.6
R1a : 11.8
R1b : 10.2
E1b : 31.5
G2 : 6.3
J2 : 18.1
J1 : 3.9
LT : 3.9
* : 1.6
Southern Greeks (Sterea Hellas & Peloponnese) (264 samples)
I : 12.9
R1a : 10.2
R1b : 20.5
E1b : 25.8
G2 : 3.4
J2 : 19.7
J1 : 2.3
LT : 3.8
* : 1.5
Eastern Greeks (Aegean islands & Ionia) (158 samples)
I : 11.4
R1a : 7.6
R1b : 22.8
E1b : 20.3
G2 : 8.2
J2 : 19.6
J1 : 5.1
LT : 3.2
* : 1.9
Cretan Greeks (Crete) (193 samples)
I : 13.0
R1a : 8.8
R1b : 17.1
E1b : 8.8
G2 : 10.9
J2 : 30.6
J1 : 8.3
LT : 2.6
*: -
All Greeks (1038 samples)
I : 15.1
R1a : 12.0
R1b : 16.9
E1b : 21.0
G2 : 6.3
J2 : 20.1
J1 : 4.3
LT : 3.2
*: 1.1
Are they outdated or maybe not so accurate in the first place?
Thank you, Nikola
A bit unexpected for Epirus to have rather low frequencies of I and R1a, for example Crete seems to have higher I than Epirus. I feel a bit ignorant on this level, I feel I miss a lot of info in order to understand it well.
I will look at it again later when I will be at home in order to use the automatic translation. I still read Cyrillic veeery slowly :-) When it is written with Latin characters I can read it at a better pace and start to be able to understand a little.
Hello again,
I followed quite a few pages of the thread about Greece, thank you, it is very interesting!
I would like to ask you about some other toponyms (of villages not that far away from ours). Somebody mentions them as Slavic (and I believe he must be right) but except for about 2 of them, there is no info on the internet. Since there is somebody that doubts their Slavic origin :-), I would like to ask you guys just to be sure.
Kosovista (this one I confirmed as "Slavic")
Koukoulitsa?
Gretsista (this too I have confirmed)
Lepiana (from lep??)
Schoretsena/Schoretsena (I put "CH" instead of the Serbian "h" or "х")
Thank you!
Ćao Nikola,
Hvala! :-)
For Kosovitsa I found indeed the same explanation as you did. BTW I think that the same black bird in Greek is called kotsifi (its etymology seems to be ancient Greek). This village name must really be Slavic.
For Koukoulitsa I have my doubts too. It has the typical slavic ending -itsa. Koukouli in Greek means cocoon (eg. of silk worms). Koukla is indeed doll and the two words (cocoon+doll) seem to be related. Also I think that in Albanian kukulla is doll. I did not know that places like mountain peaks and hilltops are named like this in Bulgarian. This could also be connected to the name of the village.
According to an explanation I found, Gretsista indeed means place of the Greeks (probably Slavic).
About Lepiana and Schoretsena I wasn't able to find anything more specific. The connection with lep was just my wild guess. :-)
Thank you again!
Thank you again!
Ćao Nikola,
Hvala! :-)
For Kosovitsa I found indeed the same explanation as you did. BTW I think that the same black bird in Greek is called kotsifi (its etymology seems to be ancient Greek). This village name must really be Slavic.
For Koukoulitsa I have my doubts too. It has the typical slavic ending -itsa. Koukouli in Greek means cocoon (eg. of silk worms). Koukla is indeed doll and the two words (cocoon+doll) seem to be related. Also I think that in Albanian kukulla is doll. I did not know that places like mountain peaks and hilltops are named like this in Bulgarian. This could also be connected to the name of the village.
According to an explanation I found, Gretsista indeed means place of the Greeks (probably Slavic).
About Lepiana and Schoretsena I wasn't able to find anything more specific. The connection with lep was just my wild guess. :-)
Thank you again!
Thank you again!
Grecište or Grečište could indeed indicate place of the Greeks, but the construction seems off. In Serbo-Croatian and Macedonian, the construction would be Grcište, or even Grčište. The Bulgarian variation for Grčište is Гърчище, or roughly Garčište. The variation seen in Greece must come from some dialectal construction denoting the Greeks as Greci, not Grci or Garci as seen in the standardized South Slavic languages. It's certainly not unknown that Greece has been called Grecija by the Slavs, so the term Greci shouldn't be totally foreign to us.
An interesting result showed up when searching "гречиште" (grečište), which side by side translations of phrases in Macedonian, Albanian and Turkish. The term гречиште corresponds to Albanian "greqishte", which is a reflex of the word "greqisht" signifying the adjective "Greek", in this case specifically Greek language. (source (https://books.google.com/books?id=SAIUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA159&lpg=PA159&dq=%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B8%D1%88%D1%82%D0%B5&source=bl&ots=FNRaDErwkh&sig=NowJN7WHVoC5gxJjHxP9uXokRig&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI7qycpZjcAhWxY98KHSZsD48Q6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B8%D1%88%D1%82%D0%B5&f=false))
There is another toponym, in Russia and Ukraine, гречище (grečišče), but I'm not sure the meaning of the toponym.
The etymology of koukouli is Latin so it could be that we both borrowed it from the Latin language. The construction of the toponym with the ending -itsa is typical of Slavic toponyms I would think. The same toponym exists in Bosnia and Herzegovina etc. as you say. That is also why the village has been renamed to Koukoulia (plural of koukouli) which sounds and is more Greek.
Hello guys,
I am coming back to the topic of Koukoulitsa, since I found out some new info. I am copying here my related answer from another forum:
"Now, regarding the interrelated words koukoula (hood), koukouli (cocoon) and koukla (doll) (also the verb "koukoulono"=to cover/cover up). Greek speakers can read a very interesting article by Sarantakos about the connection among the three words here https://sarantakos.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/koukoulai/.
Their etymology is the Latin cuculla meaning hood of monks/clergy as in the Bulgarian example above. This was its first use in Greek too. Then its meaning expanded also to cocoon (koukouli) and doll (koukla). The cocoon covers or wraps up the larvae whereas the first dolls were made of wrapped up pieces of cloth (the face was painted on the cloth's surface wrapped around the bulk of cloth which formed the head of the doll). My grandmother from Epirus used to make numerous dolls like that for me when I was a child.
The Latin word cuculla (which must have been borrowed also in the Albanian language as well as in Slavic languages to signify any of the above meanings) was originally probably borrowed from the "Galatian" (Gaul) language according to Sarantakos.
Now, toponyms all over the Balkans (maybe mostly of Slavic origin) containing some form of Koukouli/Koukoula etc. must be related either to silk worms indeed or (since it was mentioned that it is often toponyms given to places on hill or mountain tops) they must be referring to the village or place as a "hood" (according to my interpretation) that kind of covers the top (head) of the mountain."
Another funny question:
My grandmother used the word "tsagoula" pronounced "ćagula" to refer to "chin/ prominent chin". I can't find any info on the word and its etymology (must be very local). Does anybody have an idea? Thank you!
I am sorry I noticed that I spelled your name wrong twice...it's Ojler! Sorry... :-[ :)
Hey! Ok! :-) Laku noć!
Thank you, Nikola! :-) My grandmother used μούργκα also as a word which describes the dark sediment in olive oil. Do you know others that use it in this way too?
Laku noć!