Zaista interesantno. To znači da ti i još vas 8 ne dijelite ni sa kim od testiranih bigY niti me djusobno zajedničkog pretka sve do prije 2000godina. To je zaista interesantno, pogotovo ako se uzme u obzir da se novi snipovi stalno javljaju - po FTDNA svakih oko130g a po FullGenomeCorp svakih oko 70godina. To znači da je u nekih 130godina grula dozivjela veliku ekspanziju, sa nekim muškarcem koji je nakon 4-5 generacija imao više stotina potomaka. Imam još jedno pitanj. Izvini ako sam dosadan, da li su starosti koje si pominjao odredjene na bazi broja jedinstvenih i dijeljenih snipova ili preko str analize? Ti kazes imas 11 novel variants - snipova koje ne dijelis (za sad) ni sa kim od testiranih. To bi po ftdna logici bilo oko 1400g udaljenosti od tebe do drugih članova grupe. A pošto je S17250 kako ti każeš star oko2000g, to znaci da se oko 800 godina nisu pojavljivali novi snipovi, sto opet, složićeš se, nema logike. Da li si ti upućen u čitanje BAM fajlova? Možda zaista ima još snipova koje ste previdjeli. Prosto mi nema logike da ne dijeliš ni sa kim zajedničke snipove čak do prije 2000g.
Љиљане, дао сам ти непотпуну информацију, зато што сам навео само број новел варијанти које су наjбољег квалитета. Заправо има још 4 новел варијанте које су прихватљивог квалитета и 30 новел варијанти које су несигурног квалитета. Значи укупно 45 новел варијанти, али неке од њих нису сасвим сигурне.
Што се тиче прорачуна старости, ево примјера како су на Y Full-u прорачунали старост Ѕ17250 групе на основу СНП-ова тестираних:
"I-S17250 (age: 1646 ybp) Formula: (1929+1701+2003+1703+1792+978+2192...)/14
BRANCH ID SAMPLE ID NUMBER OF SNPS COVERAGE (BP) FORMULA TO CORRECT SNPS NUMBER CORRECTED NUMBER OF SNPS FORMULA TO ESTIMATE AGE AGE BY THIS LINE ONLY
I-Y5596 11.83 7742074 11.83/7742074*8467165 12.94 12.94*144.41+60 1929
YF04499 9.0 8033698 9.0/8033698*8467165 9.49 9.49*144.41+60 1430
YF01914 17.0 7789176 17.0/7789176*8467165 18.48 18.48*144.41+60 2729
YF01658 8.0 7717992 8.0/7717992*8467165 8.78 8.78*144.41+60 1327
YF02012 13.0 7215290 13.0/7215290*8467165 15.26 15.26*144.41+60 2263
YF03429 14.0 7734101 14.0/7734101*8467165 15.33 15.33*144.41+60 2273
YF02992 10.0 7962187 10.0/7962187*8467165 10.63 10.63*144.41+60 1596
I-Z16983 10.33 7697428 10.33/7697428*8467165 11.37 11.37*144.41+60 1701
YF02103 10.0 7265247 10.0/7265247*8467165 11.65 11.65*144.41+60 1743
YF01756 14.0 7456439 14.0/7456439*8467165 15.9 15.9*144.41+60 2356
YF04181 9.0 7660709 9.0/7660709*8467165 9.95 9.95*144.41+60 1496
YF02781 10.0 8238143 10.0/8238143*8467165 10.28 10.28*144.41+60 1544
YF01578 9.0 7715560 9.0/7715560*8467165 9.88 9.88*144.41+60 1486
YF02782 10.0 7848472 10.0/7848472*8467165 10.79 10.79*144.41+60 1618
I-Y4882 12.37 7789312 12.37/7789312*8467165 13.45 13.45*144.41+60 2003
YF04188 7.0 7548406 7.0/7548406*8467165 7.85 7.85*144.41+60 1194
YF03602 13.0 7984938 13.0/7984938*8467165 13.79 13.79*144.41+60 2051
YF01663 11.0 7765730 11.0/7765730*8467165 11.99 11.99*144.41+60 1792
YF01983 12.0 7175417 12.0/7175417*8467165 14.16 14.16*144.41+60 2105
YF03908 11.0 7935190 11.0/7935190*8467165 11.74 11.74*144.41+60 1755
YF03507 15.0 8092178 15.0/8092178*8467165 15.7 15.7*144.41+60 2326
YF01817 11.0 7770589 11.0/7770589*8467165 11.99 11.99*144.41+60 1791
YF02420 19.0 8042051 19.0/8042051*8467165 20.0 20.0*144.41+60 2949
YF01676 10.0 7442876 10.0/7442876*8467165 11.38 11.38*144.41+60 1703
YF02277 11.0 7765633 11.0/7765633*8467165 11.99 11.99*144.41+60 1792
YF03875 6.0 7995382 6.0/7995382*8467165 6.35 6.35*144.41+60 978
YF04018 14.0 8027966 14.0/8027966*8467165 14.77 14.77*144.41+60 2192
YF03851 9.0 8080339 9.0/8080339*8467165 9.43 9.43*144.41+60 1422
YF02831 7.0 7619303 7.0/7619303*8467165 7.78 7.78*144.41+60 1183
YF03028 9.0 8054961 9.0/8054961*8467165 9.46 9.46*144.41+60 1426
YF04022 11.0 8009592 11.0/8009592*8467165 11.63 11.63*144.41+60 1739
YF01650 12.0 7892204 12.0/7892204*8467165 12.87 12.87*144.41+60 1919
YF03812 12.0 7855274 12.0/7855274*8467165 12.93 12.93*144.41+60 1928
YF03590 7.0 7995226 7.0/7995226*8467165 7.41 7.41*144.41+60 1131
NOTE: Age estimation has been taken from downstream subclade I-Y4882, its age estimation is more (1850 > 1646)
FAQ How does YFull determine "formed" age and "TMRCA", and the related confidence intervals, of the subclades in its Experimental YTree?
Q: How does YFull determine "formed" age and "TMRCA", and the related confidence intervals, of the subclades in its Experimental YTree?
A: The following definitions and methodologies relate to the subclades in the Experimental YTree:
Subclade name: Each subclade name is highlighted in green.
SNPs "defining" a subclade: These are listed to the right of the subclade name (by SNP name, with additional SNP names in the grey-shaded pop-up: "X (a number) SNPs"). The SNP list for a subclade may change in the future as more samples are added to the YFull database and new branches are added.
Subclade "formed" age: The TMRCA (time to most recent common ancestor) of a subclade is used as the "formed" age of each branch of the subclade. Stated otherwise, the formed age of a branch is the same as the TMRCA of the "parent" subclade of that branch.
Determination of TMRCA for a subclade: The general rule is that the TMRCA of a subclade is equal to the average age (after rounding) shown in the yellow bar of the YTree "info" pop-up table for the subclade. In the situations where the general rule is not followed YFull will add an explanatory note at the bottom of the table. For an example, see the table for the I1-Z63 subclade.
Rounding rules: An age of less than 500 ybp is rounded to the nearest "25" (e.g., 381 becomes 375); an age of 500 to 1999 is rounded to the nearest "50" (e.g., 1477 becomes 1500); and an age of 2000 or more is rounded to the nearest "100" (e.g., 3160 becomes 3200).
Formed CI xx% yyyy <-> zzzz ybp, TMRCA CI aa% bbbb <-> cccc ybp: CI means "Confidence Interval". A confidence interval is an indicator of the precision of the YFull "formed" age and "TMRCA" data in the Experimental YTree. YFull developed its own statistical analysis computer script in order to calculate its confidence intervals.
Yellow Bar in "info" pop-up table: The "ybp" (years before the present) for the subclade is the average of the ages of the branches and samples (if any) highlighted in green in the Branch ID column, as shown in the yellow bar "Formula".
Number of SNPs column in "info" pop-up table: For a branch, the number in this column is the average of the numbers reported for the samples in the branch. For a sample, the number in this column is the total of the Known SNPs and Novel SNPs located between the subclade and the present. These SNPs are identified in the Age Estimation table.
Other columns in "info" pop-up table: Branch numbers are averages of the numbers given for the samples in the branch. The two formulas used in the table are discussed in the FAQ: What is YFull's age estimation methodology?
FAQ What is YFull's age estimation methodology?
Q: What is YFull's age estimation methodology?
A: YFull uses a methodology based on the research and analysis discussed in Defining a New Rate Constant for Y-Chromosome SNPs based on Full Sequencing Data by Adamov, Guryanov, Korzhavin, Tagankin, Urasin (2015).
The methodology is reflected in the Age Estimation table for the each analyzed sample and in the subclade age pop-up tables linked to the YTree.
The first step is to select and count reliable derived Known SNPs for a sample. The number of counted SNPs appears in both tables.
The following five criteria are used to select reliable SNPS:
1. The coordinates of the SNPs must fall within the combBED regions designed to select X-degenerate segments. The combBED area borders were formed by mutual overlapping BED files taken from the work of Poznik et al. (2013) (total length of 10.45 Mbp) and by the generalized BigY BED file (11.38 Mbp long), published in the BigY White Paper (2014). The result was 857 continuous segments of the Y-chromosome with a total length of 8,473,821 base pairs.
2. Insertions and deletions (called "Indels") are excluded, as are multiple nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs with more than one base position).
3. Variants detected in more than five different "localizations" are excluded. "Localization” means a group of samples from the YFull database belonging to the same subclade and having derived allele nomination. In some cases, the same derived variants may be found in different subclades or different haplogroups because of mapping errors or because the standard reference sequence is based mainly on haplogroup R1b data and to a lesser extent on haplogroup G data. This causes some variants in some haplogroups to be ancestral instead of derived. Although YFull established the "five different localizations" criterion empirically, the criterion is soft but believed to be effective.
4. SNPs with only one or two "reads" are excluded.
5. SNPs are excluded if the "read quality" is less than 90%. Quality is determined pursuant to YFull's proprietary SNP rating system. See the FAQ How does YFull determine the quality rating for my SNPs?
The Age Estimation table for each sample provides a high level of detail about the application of the selection criteria. Reliable Known and Novel SNPs are listed in the "+Known SNPS" and "+Novels" columns of the table, and SNPs not selected are listed in the "x Known SNPs" and "x Novels" columns, with details related to the five criteria.
The second step of the sample age determination methodology is explained in the YTree "info" pop-up tables for the YTree subclades. For each sample in a table, two formulas are applied to the number of SNPs for the sample. The first formula corrects the SNP count to an assumed (or corrected) count from the combBed bp coverage area, and the second formula establishes the age of a sample based on the corrected count. The second formula uses an assumed mutation rate of 144.41 years (0.8178*10-9, which is the average of the mutation rates of the ancient Anzick-1 sample and of a group of known genealogies, and an assumed age of 60 years for living providers of YFull samples.
See also: How does YFull determine "formed" age and "TMRCA", and the related confidence intervals, of the subclades in its Experimental YTree?"
Па ако ти се да да проучаваш, ти изволи. Мени је ово ипак мало превише математике. Иначе не читам БАМ фајлове. У суштини, мислим да људи са Y Full-a у комбинацији са администарторима са ФТДНА не би требали да оману, тј. да су код Динарика нашли све што се могло наћи на основу досадашњих сирових резулатата са Биг Ипсилона.