Форум - Порекло
Дискусије на страним језицима => English language subforum => Тему започео: Gary.b Јануар 11, 2020, 08:50:09 поподне
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This was taken from a professional Genealogy in Zagreb.
BARAC REPORT
( based on 2 hours of my work in Zagreb's archives and at home Nov 6 and 7, 1019 )
I checked from parish Svrackovo Selo:
Births: 1900-1918
Weddings: 1900-1939
Your family lived in Svračkovo Selo 36/138:
Dane ( = Danijel) and Jeka ( = Helena) Barac had sons:
1. Đurađ, b. in 1899; he marrie don Jan 22, 1917 with Jeka Vranješ ( b. in 1892 to parents Marko and Bozica Vranješ from Visuć 8)
2. Ilija, b. on Jan 17, 1902; he married on Apr 18, 1920 with Stoja Vukmirovic ( b. in 1897)
IN Svračkovo Selo 36 also lived following people:
Isak and Sofija Barac had son:
1. Jovan, b. in 1859+ before 1925 ; his first wife was Bozica ( died before 1920). They had children:
1.1.Marko, b. in 1882; he married in 1920 with Marija Vukovic
1.2.Milica, b. in 1891; she married in 1913 with Rade Vukmirovic
1.3. Anđelija, b. in 1894; she married in 1919 with Vukolaj Štetić
Jovan married second time in 1920 with Bozica widow Panjkovic
Isak and Milica Barac had son:
1. Ilija, b. in 1854; he married as widower in 1901 with widow Sofija ??
Manojlo ( Maniša) and Deva Barac had children:
1. Mile, b. in 1901
2. Maniša, b. in 1907+ in Gospic on May 14, 1976
I can't conclude how this people are connected with your close family.
This is the church in Svrackoro Selo https://ssr.org.rs/prikupljanje-pomoci-za-obnovu-crkve-uspenja-presvete-bogorodice-u-svrackovom-selu-u-opstini-udbina/?lang=en
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Hi Gary,
I assume your ancestor are Krajina Serbs and you are after info on Barać from Podlapaća/Svraćkovo Selo? Have done any Y-DNA testing?
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I suppose this is the same Gary Barac who i have as one of the closest Big Y matches. Same as me he belongs to the Drobnjak cluster.
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yDNA I-FGC22054 Big Y 500
mtDNA H2a2b1a*
23andME and FTDNA
Also YFull.com
I have earlier posts.
Gary
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Yes, I can see now.
Have you join Serbian DNA Project on FTDNA?
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/serbian-dna-project/about (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/serbian-dna-project/about)
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Just submitted request to join the Serbian group on FTDNA.
"I assume your ancestor are Krajina Serbs and you are after info on Barać from Podlapača/Svraćkovo Selo? Have done any Y-DNA testing?"
My actual ancestry I'm unsure of because some of the naturalization papers say Yugoslavia, Hungary, Croatian or Serbian and members of this forum have noted a tribe in Montenegro.
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Just submitted request to join the Serbian group on FTDNA.
"I assume your ancestor are Krajina Serbs and you are after info on Barać from Podlapača/Svraćkovo Selo? Have done any Y-DNA testing?"
My actual ancestry I'm unsure of because some of the naturalization papers say Yugoslavia, Hungary, Croatian or Serbian and members of this forum have noted a tribe in Montenegro.
The village were your ancestors stem from is an ethnic Serb village in what is now days Croatia. Back in the day when your ancestor emigrated to US the area was part of Austro-Hungarian Empire. As most of the immigrants were iliterate the authorities at Ellis Island provided helped filling the immigration forms. As one of the form fields was a “Country of Origin” the authorites assumed this also implies their ethnicity, hence the confusion. That is a reason why a lot of Serbian immigrants to US have Austria, Hungary or Croatia as their home countries or ethnicities. Also Drobnjak clan of Montenegro produced many prominent Serbian historical figures and is an integral part of Serbian nation.
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Thank you ACA, I know there are 1857-1858 census for the area, on Family Search (Mormon) website. Ther where a couple of members transcribed a few entries but still uncertain who and where my ancestries lived at the time. In the 1900-1939 census my family lived in Svračkovo Selo 36/138. Wished I knew where those houses where located. Also thank you Uzi, probably would not join the Serbian group.
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L99C-LBRP?i=5&wc=MC59-VTG%3A391644701%2C391662201%2C391646602&cc=2040054
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Thank you ACA, I know there are 1857-1858 census for the area, on Family Search (Mormon) website. Ther where a couple of members transcribed a few entries but still uncertain who and where my ancestries lived at the time. In the 1900-1939 census my family lived in Svračkovo Selo 36/138. Wished I knew where those houses where located. Also thank you Uzi, probably would not join the Serbian group.
Not a problem Gary.
Thanks for joining the Serbian DNA group on FTDNA.
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This was taken from a post in a different part of the English language subforum
"Ван мреже Банија
Члан Друштва
Писар
*****
Поруке: 209
Погледај профил Имејл Приватна порука (Ван мреже)
Одг: More questions about Podlapaca
« Одговор #12 послато: септембар 21, 2017, 03:04:24 пре подне »
Цитат
Цитат: Брубноград септембар 20, 2017, 08:03:09 пре подне
In church records from Podlapača orthodox parish from 1857-1858. we have confirmed Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) and also from Mekinjar:
1. Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo)
- 10 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in birth records (14, 22, 24, 35, 36, 38, 44, 51, 66, 76) from 1857.
- 2 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in death records (3, 20) from 1857.
- 4 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in birth records (7, 21, 48, 59) from 1858.
- 2 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in marriage records (6, 8 ) from 1858.
- 3 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in death records (5, 16, 31) from 1858.
We can see that Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) lived in at least 5 different house numbers (10/2, 26, 27, 28, 29).
2. Mekinjar
- 3 mentions of Barać family from Mekinjar in birth records (37, 55, 60) from 1857.
Just a quick rush through birth or baptism records (1857), only basic informations about Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo):
14. Milica was baptized, daughter of Ilija Barać and Janja, from Podlapača (10/2).
22. Isak Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Lemajić family from Podlapača.
24. Stoja was baptized, daughter of Mihailo Barać and Angelina, from Podlapača (29).
35. Mihailo Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Korica family from Podlapača.
36. Stojan was baptized, son of Petar Barać and Stana, from Podlapača (27).
38. Manojlo was baptized, son of Teodor Barać and Sofija, from Podlapača (29).
44. Jovan was baptized, son of Luka Barać and Angelina, from Podlapača (26)
51. Jovan Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Lemajić family from Podlapača.
66. Božica was baptized, daughter of Pantelija Barać and Sava, from Podlapača (29).
76. Mihailo Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Vukmirović family from Podlapača.
I don't have a lot of time in these days, but I hope that I can send you full translation of all these records in November."
I was wondering if a member could complete it https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L99C-L1XX?wc=9RK1-92K%3A391644701%2C391662201%2C391646602&cc=2040054
Also house 36 from pages 9 (48), 13 (79), 18 (13) and 28 (64) as my family lived in Svračkovo Selo 36/138: Census 1900-1939
Please and thank you.
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Thank you Petar,
I had a professional genealogy Sanja Frigan Ciuha
BARAC REPORT
( based on 2 hours of my work in Zagreb's archives and at home Nov 6 and 7, 1019 )
On 1/14/2020 4:58 PM, Форум - Порекло wrote:
I checked from parish Svrackovo Selo:
Births: 1900-1918
Weddings: 1900-1939
Your family lived in Svračkovo Selo 36/138:
I should contact them by email? in Serbian, and expect to pay a fee?
> p.demich вам је управо послао нову приватну поруку на Форум - Порекло.\n\nВАЖНО: Запамтите, ово је само обавештење. Не одговарајте на овај мејл.\n\nПорука коју вам је послао гласи овако:\n\nHello, Gary.
>
>
> House numbers from 1900-1939 are not the same as house numbers from 1857/1858. In 1857/1858. we have Dragojević family with house number 36 in Podlapača. Families got their new house numbers probably after the dissolution of the Croatian Military Border in 1871.
>
> Maybe you could get some information about your ancestors from Croatian State Archives in Zagreb (http://www.daz.hr), because they have cadastral informations about Svračkovo Selo (1874-1906):
>
>
>
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> Greetings from Kragujevac,
> Petar Demić
>
> Одговорите на ову приватну поруку овде: https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;f=inbox;pmsg=101334;quote;u=57733
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Email to [email protected] tranlated from English to Serbian
Kome bi to smetalo, volio bih katastarske podatke o Podlapači / Svračkovu Selu (1874. - 1906.) za genealoška istraživanja. Gledajući prezime Barać. Unajmio sam profesionalnu rodoslovnicu Sanju Frigan Ciuha koja je rekla "Vaša obitelj je živjela u popisu stanovništva 1900. - 1939. U Svračkom Selu 36/138". Kolika je vaša naknada i kako bih je platio?
Hvala vam na vremenu i strpljenju. Gary Barach.
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Email to [email protected] tranlated from English to Serbian
Kome bi to smetalo, volio bih katastarske podatke o Podlapači / Svračkovu Selu (1874. - 1906.) za genealoška istraživanja. Gledajući prezime Barać. Unajmio sam profesionalnu rodoslovnicu Sanju Frigan Ciuha koja je rekla "Vaša obitelj je živjela u popisu stanovništva 1900. - 1939. U Svračkom Selu 36/138". Kolika je vaša naknada i kako bih je platio?
Hvala vam na vremenu i strpljenju. Gary Barach.
It might be best to sending a request to [email protected], asking them to scan (black&white) the following collection: HR-HDA-1421-1-3-134-2-1
The full title of the collection:
HR-HDA-1421 - Arhiv mapa za Hrvatsku i Slavoniju (fond)
1 - Hrvatska i Slavonija (serija)
3 - Ličko-krbavska županija (podserija)
134 - K.o. Svračkovo Selo (dosje)
2 - Upisnici čestica (predmet)
1 - Upisnik kućnih čestica (komad)
Naziv: Upisnik kućnih čestica (komad)
Signatura: HR-HDA-1421-1-3-134-2-1
Imatelj: Hrvatski državni arhiv
Razdoblje: 1876 - 1876
Identifikator: HR-HDA/AJ 110181
Web link: http://arhinet.arhiv.hr/details.aspx?ItemId=1_110181 (http://arhinet.arhiv.hr/details.aspx?ItemId=1_110181)
There shouldn't be that many pages, especially if you ask them to only scan pages that actually have any writing on it. This are title deeds for houses in year 1876, and it they should have name of the title deed owner(s) at the time, or a least tell you which zadruga was the owner of which house. You could then check the exact location of the house on mapire.eu (cadastrial maps).
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Thank you Uzi,
I contacted them and there are sending me house numbers for Barac.
Gary_B
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I received 2 pages of 1858 map to house numbers, I saved it in jpg, but don't know how to paste them here, as my chrome browser isn't converting writing to english.
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I received 2 pages of 1858 map to house numbers, I saved it in jpg, but don't know how to paste them here, as my chrome browser isn't converting writing to english.
Try with this site: postimages.org (http://postimages.org) ;)
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I received 2 pages of 1858 map to house numbers, I saved it in jpg, but don't know how to paste them here, as my chrome browser isn't converting writing to english.
Gary, you can use https://imgur.com/ (https://imgur.com/) service to upload it and then just share it here on forum.
Watch this video to see how to do it: http://y2u.be/EPSwCOtf0Xw (http://y2u.be/EPSwCOtf0Xw)
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Ok lets try this. 1858 Barac
(https://i.postimg.cc/hzD9R5zN/HDA-1421-002-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzD9R5zN)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qh12Jx2q/HDA-1421-003-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qh12Jx2q)
Gary.b
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Thanks for sharing this Gary.
Have you checked the titles against cadastral map yet? I had a quick look at where some of the houses were.
I found those:
- zadruga 37 with house title no.1909 and no.1913
- zadruga 43 with house title no.1911
- zadruga 66 with house title no.1910
(https://i.postimg.cc/tgXB1CXF/barac.jpg)
After you've identified where the houses are, you should be able to check what the current state is and who owns the houses on:https://oss.uredjenazemlja.hr/public/cadServices.jsp?action=dkpViewerPublic (https://oss.uredjenazemlja.hr/public/cadServices.jsp?action=dkpViewerPublic)
(https://i.postimg.cc/kMQ3tDCp/barac2.jpg)
Hope it helps.
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Thank you Amicus, Ojler and Uzi
I have found owners for some of the properies, this was dated 1876
(https://i.postimg.cc/L576bkNN/HDA-1421-001.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
house numbers are
-51 1962/1968
-55 1947
-57 1909/1913
-58 1901
-60 1911
-63 1910
Uzi where were
- zadruga 37 with house title no.1909 and no.1913
- zadruga 43 with house title no.1911
- zadruga 66 with house title no.1910
how did you find those?
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Ok, here is the 1876 property titles for Barac in Svrackovo Selo
https://postimg.cc/gallery/dewnu4ho/
Sorry the pdf look pretty sad.
Try my google drive at https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1M-nyYOvgZlbJnZHAEq5sT4bD9-o4D5NY
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Ok, here is the 1876 property titles for Barac in Svrackovo Selo
https://postimg.cc/gallery/dewnu4ho/
Sorry the pdf look pretty sad.
Try my google drive at https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1M-nyYOvgZlbJnZHAEq5sT4bD9-o4D5NY
Gary, this are the current owners of the land titles. Due to GDPR and similar Data Protection Regulations I'm not sure you can publish them online like this as they contain personal data of living people, even though this is publicly available information.
Anyhow, did you manage to find all those land title numbers on Mapire's cadastral map?
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HRVATSKI DRŽAVNI ARHIV
Marulićev trg 21, 10000 Zagreb, Hrvatska
tel: 385 (1) 48 01 999, fax: 385 (1) 48 29 000
www: http://www.arhiv.hr, e-mail: [email protected]
They are removed
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Anyhow, did you manage to find all those land title numbers on Mapire's cadastral map?
Yes, thank you, it was on post earlier, title numbers, big space then house numbers. It did click in my head until this morning.
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Yes, thank you, it was on post earlier, title numbers, big space then house numbers. It did click in my head until this morning.
That's great. Not sure if you are aware, Mapire also gives you location coordinates. For instance I've hoovered over a house in title number 1910 and the coordinates for that house are 15.6184 44.6259 (see photo below). Those coordinates can then be entered on google maps in reverse order e.g. 44.6259 15.6184, and it will show you the exact location of the property.
(https://i.postimg.cc/k4kbKD6S/house-location.jpg)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/44%C2%B037'33.2%22N+15%C2%B037'06.2%22E/@44.6259,15.6184,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d44.6259!4d15.6184 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/44%C2%B037'33.2%22N+15%C2%B037'06.2%22E/@44.6259,15.6184,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d44.6259!4d15.6184)
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Could I get someone to finish translating both years
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L99C-LBRP?i=5&wc=MC59-VTG%3A391644701%2C391662201%2C391646602&cc=2040054
This was taken from a post in a different part of the English language subforum
"Ван мреже Банија
Члан Друштва
Писар
*****
Поруке: 209
Погледај профил Имејл Приватна порука (Ван мреже)
Одг: More questions about Podlapaca
« Одговор #12 послато: септембар 21, 2017, 03:04:24 пре подне »
Цитат
Цитат: Брубноград септембар 20, 2017, 08:03:09 пре подне
In church records from Podlapača orthodox parish from 1857-1858. we have confirmed Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) and also from Mekinjar:
1. Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo)
- 10 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in birth records (14, 22, 24, 35, 36, 38, 44, 51, 66, 76) from 1857.
- 2 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in death records (3, 20) from 1857.
- 4 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in birth records (7, 21, 48, 59) from 1858.
- 2 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in marriage records (6, 8 ) from 1858.
- 3 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in death records (5, 16, 31) from 1858.
We can see that Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) lived in at least 5 different house numbers (10/2, 26, 27, 28, 29).
2. Mekinjar
- 3 mentions of Barać family from Mekinjar in birth records (37, 55, 60) from 1857.
Just a quick rush through birth or baptism records (1857), only basic informations about Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo):
14. Milica was baptized, daughter of Ilija Barać and Janja, from Podlapača (10/2).
22. Isak Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Lemajić family from Podlapača.
24. Stoja was baptized, daughter of Mihailo Barać and Angelina, from Podlapača (29).
35. Mihailo Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Korica family from Podlapača.
36. Stojan was baptized, son of Petar Barać and Stana, from Podlapača (27).
38. Manojlo was baptized, son of Teodor Barać and Sofija, from Podlapača (29).
44. Jovan was baptized, son of Luka Barać and Angelina, from Podlapača (26)
51. Jovan Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Lemajić family from Podlapača.
66. Božica was baptized, daughter of Pantelija Barać and Sava, from Podlapača (29).
76. Mihailo Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Vukmirović family from Podlapača.
I don't have a lot of time in these days, but I hope that I can send you full translation of all these records in November."
I was wondering if a member could complete it https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L99C-L1XX?wc=9RK1-92K%3A391644701%2C391662201%2C391646602&cc=2040054
Also house 36 from pages 9 (48), 13 (79), 18 (13) and 28 (64) as my family lived in Svračkovo Selo 36/138: Census 1900-1939
Please and thank you.
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If I am not mistaken, in the census table house #36 corresponds to the parcel #1947. Mapire shows the parcel a bit Westerly from the map image Uzi posted earlier this year. There were two houses on the parcel. Could that be the house you were looking for?
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Depends if house #36 before the reassignment or after the 1856-1858 census. Thank you for replying.
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cut and paste, without name, is this a violation?
Katastarska općina: SVRAČKOVO SELO (Mbr. 330574)
Posjedovni list: 10
1947/1 VRTO 863 10
ORANICA 809
DVORIŠTE 54
1947/2 DVORIŠTE 119 10
DVORIŠTE 119
1947/3 DVORIŠTE 2338 10
DVORIŠTE 2338
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1M-nyYOvgZlbJnZHAEq5sT4bD9-o4D5NY
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Habsburg Empire - Cadastral maps (XIX. century)
House 36 Svrackovo Solo
https://mapire.eu/en/map/cadastral/?layers=here-aerial%2C4&bbox=1737280.041425982%2C5561643.158219945%2C1738273.125629406%2C5562001.456790032
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Just wondering when Croatia renumbered dwellings between 1860 to cadastral map of 1878. To me the houses do not match what is written in the church records and what is shown on the cadastral map. For instance, the church records show most of the Barac are in 10/2, 26, 27, 28, 29.
In church records from Podlapača orthodox parish from 1857-1858. we have confirmed Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) and also from Mekinjar:
1. Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo)
- 10 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in birth records (14, 22, 24, 35, 36, 38, 44, 51, 66, 76) from 1857.
- 2 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in death records (3, 20) from 1857.
- 4 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in birth records (7, 21, 48, 59) from 1858.
- 2 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in marriage records (6, 8 ) from 1858.
- 3 mentions of Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) in death records (5, 16, 31) from 1858.
We can see that Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo) lived in at least 5 different house numbers (10/2, 26, 27, 28, 29).
2. Mekinjar
- 3 mentions of Barać family from Mekinjar in birth records (37, 55, 60) from 1857.
Just a quick rush through birth or baptism records (1857), only basic informations about Barać family from Podlapača (Svračkovo Selo):
14. Milica was baptized, daughter of Ilija Barać and Janja, from Podlapača (10/2).
22. Isak Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Lemajić family from Podlapača.
24. Stoja was baptized, daughter of Mihailo Barać and Angelina, from Podlapača (29).
35. Mihailo Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Korica family from Podlapača.
36. Stojan was baptized, son of Petar Barać and Stana, from Podlapača (27).
38. Manojlo was baptized, son of Teodor Barać and Sofija, from Podlapača (29).
44. Jovan was baptized, son of Luka Barać and Angelina, from Podlapača (26)
51. Jovan Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Lemajić family from Podlapača.
66. Božica was baptized, daughter of Pantelija Barać and Sava, from Podlapača (29).
76. Mihailo Barać from Podlapača was godfather at the baptism of male child from Vukmirović family from Podlapača.
and the photo records are dated 1876 which are 30, 31, 33 , 34, 35, 36, 37, 43, 66.
1876
(https://i.postimg.cc/hzD9R5zN/HDA-1421-002-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzD9R5zN)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qh12Jx2q/HDA-1421-003-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qh12Jx2q)
Gary.b