Аутор Тема: Древна ДНК  (Прочитано 192270 пута)

Ван мреже CosicZ

  • Редакција СДНКП
  • Истраживач
  • ******
  • Поруке: 898
  • Ђурђевдан Y:I1>P109>FGC22045 Панчево
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #660 послато: Јануар 06, 2023, 06:20:43 пре подне »
2023-01-03 https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/ancientsamples
Хаплогрупе из рада "Paleogenomics of Upper Paleolithic to Neolithic European hunter-gatherers - Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology" ( Y, mtDNA)

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/42841-The-Selection-Landscape-and-Genetic-Legacy-of-Ancient-Eurasians-Preprint?p=663563
Цитат
ENA abstract
Paleogenomics of Upper Paleolithic to Neolithic European hunter-gatherers
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
19.12.2022

Eurasia has been populated by modern humans for over 45,000 years and for the vast majority of their time they relied on a foraging lifestyle. Our knowledge of the genetic relatedness and structure of European hunter-gatherers is, however, still limited, because dedicated studies are challenged by the scarce availability and poor molecular preservation of human remains from that period. Here we analyze 356 ancient hunter-gatherer genomes including new genomic data of 116 individuals from 14 countries in western and central Eurasia, dating between 35,000 and 5,000 years ago (35-5 ka). We identify a new genetic ancestry profile in individuals associated with the Upper Paleolithic Gravettian from western Europe, which is distinct from contemporaneous groups related to this archeological culture in central and southern Europe. However, it resembles that of preceding individuals associated with the Aurignacian and survives during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM, ~25-19 ka) in human populations from southwestern Europe, associated with the Solutrean and later Magdalenian, which re-expanded northward and northeastward after the LGM. Conversely, we reveal a genetic turnover in southern Europe suggesting a local replacement of human groups during the LGM, alongside a north-to-south expansion of Epigravettian-associated populations. From at least 14 ka, a lineage related to this culture expands from the south across the rest of Europe largely replacing the Magdalenian-associated gene pool. After a period of limited admixture across the beginning of the Mesolithic, we find genetic interactions between western and eastern European hunter-gatherers, also characterized by marked differences in inherited phenotypic traits.
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB51862
https://edmond.mpdl.mpg.de/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi:10.17617/3.Y1KJMF

https://www.theytree.com/sample/a7ffee6b7e824909ec9f352499c4ca4b.html
https://www.theytree.com/tree/I-A17060
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y45825/
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-BY37319/tree

На мрежи Кековац

  • Уредник СДНКП
  • Познавалац
  • *****
  • Поруке: 482
  • I2-S25733>PH2670>Y200040
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #661 послато: Мај 09, 2023, 12:50:52 поподне »
Верујем да ће многим љубитељима археогенетска бити занимљив овај видео јер нуди краћи увид у процес истраживања и обраде резултата на једном заиста великом пројекту
<a href="https://youtube.com/v/myla0_cCEWU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/myla0_cCEWU</a>
« Последња измена: Мај 09, 2023, 01:24:20 поподне НиколаВук »


Ван мреже Зрно

  • Помоћник уредника
  • Етнолог
  • *****
  • Поруке: 2334
  • R1b>Z2705>BY200954

На мрежи Кековац

  • Уредник СДНКП
  • Познавалац
  • *****
  • Поруке: 482
  • I2-S25733>PH2670>Y200040
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #664 послато: Јун 07, 2023, 03:50:51 поподне »
https://www.novosti.rs/reportaze/vesti/1246259/harvard-otkriva-proslost-sveta-viminacijumu-srpski-arheoloski-institut-vodeci-americki-univerzitet-pocinju-svetski-dnk-projekat

Цитат
- Na ovaj način dobićemo jasniju sliku o stanovništvu Balkana tokom prvog milenijuma naše ere - kaže prof. dr Miomir Korać, dugogodišnji direktor Arheološkog instituta i rukovodilac projekta "Viminacijum - rimski grad i vojni logor". - Ovi rezultati se mogu dobiti samo istraživanjem velikog broja uzoraka, oko 1.000 skeleta, a tako veliku nekropolu ima samo Viminacijum.

Сјајна вест.

Ван мреже НиколаВук

  • Уредник
  • Бели орао
  • *****
  • Поруке: 8478
  • I2-PH908>Y250780>A32852, род Никшића
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #665 послато: Јун 07, 2023, 04:04:33 поподне »
Чињеницама против самоувереног незнања.

Ван мреже Ивица Јовановић

  • Члан Друштва
  • Истраживач
  • *****
  • Поруке: 882
  • J-L70 > J-Z40772* mdDNA:HV-b15a
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #666 послато: Јун 07, 2023, 04:07:42 поподне »
Necu se radovati dok rezultati ne budu na Yfull ili ftDNA. Tako sam se radovao i za proslo istrazivanje, eno ga jos u preprintu. Normalno ocekujem gomilu L70, i to je tako.
Милутин Бранковић, 4. ескадрон Коњичке дивизије. Крф 26.04.1916.
Сава Питић, 13. Пук. Острво Видo 24.01.1916.
Сима Мијуцић, 9. пешадијски пук. Браунау 1917.

На мрежи Кековац

  • Уредник СДНКП
  • Познавалац
  • *****
  • Поруке: 482
  • I2-S25733>PH2670>Y200040
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #667 послато: Јун 07, 2023, 04:43:21 поподне »
О овоме ће професор Харпер да говори сутра у 18 часова у свечаној сали САНУ.

Да ли ће Порекло да сними ово предавање и постави на свој YT канал? Видим да ће бити директан пренос преко сајта САНУ али не ни било лоше и да буде на YT.

Ван мреже Драган Обреновић

  • Члан Управног одбора
  • Истраживач
  • *
  • Поруке: 955
  • R1b-U152>FTA27217
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #668 послато: Јун 07, 2023, 05:10:26 поподне »
О овоме ће професор Харпер да говори сутра у 18 часова у свечаној сали САНУ.

Надамо се да ћеш нам овде написати барем сажети извештај са предавања :)

Ван мреже НиколаВук

  • Уредник
  • Бели орао
  • *****
  • Поруке: 8478
  • I2-PH908>Y250780>A32852, род Никшића
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #669 послато: Јун 07, 2023, 07:16:10 поподне »
Да ли ће Порекло да сними ово предавање и постави на свој YT канал? Видим да ће бити директан пренос преко сајта САНУ али не ни било лоше и да буде на YT.

Можда ће бити, видећемо.  ;)

Надамо се да ћеш нам овде написати барем сажети извештај са предавања :)

Наравно.  :)
Чињеницама против самоувереног незнања.

Ван мреже Radul

  • Члан Друштва
  • Памтиша
  • *****
  • Поруке: 1684
  • J-Y230853 Башино Село, Цетиње > Кривошије
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #670 послато: Јун 07, 2023, 10:43:58 поподне »
Necu se radovati dok rezultati ne budu na Yfull ili ftDNA. Tako sam se radovao i za proslo istrazivanje, eno ga jos u preprintu. Normalno ocekujem gomilu L70, i to je tako.
Потписујем :D ; очекујем и Криче, М67 свих могућих грана, Ј1 и навијам за неког мог S8230.
Ако се бојите, немојте то чинити; ако то радите, не бојте се! - Темуџин

Ван мреже Be like Bill

  • Истраживач
  • *******
  • Поруке: 842
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #671 послато: Јун 08, 2023, 06:01:10 пре подне »
Ako se neko nađe na samom predavanju, da li može postaviti pitanje oko uzorka I18719 iz Bezdanjače, da li bi bilo moguće uraditi njegovu dataciju uz pomoć C14 ili sličnog metoda?

Ван мреже НиколаВук

  • Уредник
  • Бели орао
  • *****
  • Поруке: 8478
  • I2-PH908>Y250780>A32852, род Никшића
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #672 послато: Јун 08, 2023, 04:15:44 поподне »
Ako se neko nađe na samom predavanju, da li može postaviti pitanje oko uzorka I18719 iz Bezdanjače, da li bi bilo moguće uraditi njegovu dataciju uz pomoć C14 ili sličnog metoda?

Нисам сигуран да ли ће о Бездањачи бити речи јер је у питању предавање о генетском наслеђу римског подунавског лимеса.
Чињеницама против самоувереног незнања.

Ван мреже drajver

  • Члан Друштва
  • Бели орао
  • *****
  • Поруке: 5122
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #673 послато: Јун 08, 2023, 04:25:27 поподне »
Нисам сигуран да ли ће о Бездањачи бити речи јер је у питању предавање о генетском наслеђу римског подунавског лимеса.

Не знам да ли сте примјетили, али у овом раду о Албанцима су споменули и узорке из Бездањаче. Ево њиховог коментара.

"We mention here naming differences based on a re-interpretation of the samples in question. Individuals I18723, I18721, I18719 from Bezdanjača Cave in Croatia, which were archaeologically dated to the Bronze Age (1500-800 BCE), were interpreted in previous studies as outliers compared to the contemporary population of Croatia (5, 6). We argue that based on insights from the PCA and their uniparental markers, these outlying individuals likely date to post- Medieval times. Individuals I18721 and I18719 are assigned to haplogroup I2-M423>I-Y3120 (Table S23), which is associated with the Slavic expansion toward southern Europe during the Migration Period, and has experienced major founder effects in the South Slavic population of the Balkans (48, 68, 82). This haplogroup is extremely unlikely to have entered the Western Balkans in the Bronze Age, as our extensive haplogroup dataset shows that subclades downstream of I2-M423 appear in the region primarily during the Migration Period (Fig. 8), as expected. Occasional migrants from the Balto-Slavic world to southern Europe are known in the Iron Age, such as two mercenaries from the Battle of Himera in Sicily (58). However, the Bezdanjača Cave outliers are unlikely to represent BA migrants from northern Europe, as the mitochondrial haplogroup of individual I18719 (HV0a1a1b), has a TMRCA of 225 years before present with a person from modern Germany (77). Furthermore, previous archaeological studies in Bezdanjača Cave radiocarbon-dated an ancient individual to the 17th century CE, and also reported the remains of two skeletons which date to World War II (86). Another sample that might be misdated is I13170 from Velika Gruda in Montenegro, attributed to the Iron Age (800-400 BCE) (6). This individual, which was not radiocarbon dated, clustered with modern South Slavs (6), and was therefore excluded from our analyses."

Ван мреже НиколаВук

  • Уредник
  • Бели орао
  • *****
  • Поруке: 8478
  • I2-PH908>Y250780>A32852, род Никшића
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #674 послато: Јун 08, 2023, 10:06:15 поподне »
Не знам да ли сте примјетили, али у овом раду о Албанцима су споменули и узорке из Бездањаче. Ево њиховог коментара.

"We mention here naming differences based on a re-interpretation of the samples in question. Individuals I18723, I18721, I18719 from Bezdanjača Cave in Croatia, which were archaeologically dated to the Bronze Age (1500-800 BCE), were interpreted in previous studies as outliers compared to the contemporary population of Croatia (5, 6). We argue that based on insights from the PCA and their uniparental markers, these outlying individuals likely date to post- Medieval times. Individuals I18721 and I18719 are assigned to haplogroup I2-M423>I-Y3120 (Table S23), which is associated with the Slavic expansion toward southern Europe during the Migration Period, and has experienced major founder effects in the South Slavic population of the Balkans (48, 68, 82). This haplogroup is extremely unlikely to have entered the Western Balkans in the Bronze Age, as our extensive haplogroup dataset shows that subclades downstream of I2-M423 appear in the region primarily during the Migration Period (Fig. 8), as expected. Occasional migrants from the Balto-Slavic world to southern Europe are known in the Iron Age, such as two mercenaries from the Battle of Himera in Sicily (58). However, the Bezdanjača Cave outliers are unlikely to represent BA migrants from northern Europe, as the mitochondrial haplogroup of individual I18719 (HV0a1a1b), has a TMRCA of 225 years before present with a person from modern Germany (77). Furthermore, previous archaeological studies in Bezdanjača Cave radiocarbon-dated an ancient individual to the 17th century CE, and also reported the remains of two skeletons which date to World War II (86). Another sample that might be misdated is I13170 from Velika Gruda in Montenegro, attributed to the Iron Age (800-400 BCE) (6). This individual, which was not radiocarbon dated, clustered with modern South Slavs (6), and was therefore excluded from our analyses."

Добро је да је неко то поменуо у научном раду, било је крајње време да се каже оно што је нама мање-више од почетка било очигледно.
Чињеницама против самоувереног незнања.

Ван мреже НиколаВук

  • Уредник
  • Бели орао
  • *****
  • Поруке: 8478
  • I2-PH908>Y250780>A32852, род Никшића
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #675 послато: Јун 08, 2023, 10:14:12 поподне »
Добро је да је неко то поменуо у научном раду, било је крајње време да се каже оно што је нама мање-више од почетка било очигледно.

Иначе, предавање је било помало "разочаравајуће", јер је археогенетика поменута само у контексту рада о коме је већ било речи у прошлогодишњем предавању Карлоса Лалуезе Фокса, а који се тренутно налази у процесу "прегледа" (review). Предавач је историчар и углавном је говорио мање-више познате ствари о кризи 3. века и њеним последицама по Римско Царство, о значају Доње Паноније и Горње Мезије због порекла римских царева који су Империју поново подигли на ноге, као и о климатским и епидемиолошким променама које су се догађале од 3. до 7. века. У том смислу је занимљиво да је готово цео 3. век био знатно хладнији од просека, а исто се може рећи и за 6. век, па је указао да би то могао бити један од узрока унутрашње кризе у Римском Царству као и појачаног притиска варвара који су желели да се преселе како би преживели неродне године. Такође су значајне три епидемије - Антонинска (160-их и 170-их), Кипријанова (251-266) и Јустинијанска (540-их до 720-их). Једино се за Јустинијанску сигурно зна узрочник (бубонска куга), за ове раније две нису сигурни да ли је то у питању или нека друга заразна болест.
Чињеницама против самоувереног незнања.

На мрежи Кековац

  • Уредник СДНКП
  • Познавалац
  • *****
  • Поруке: 482
  • I2-S25733>PH2670>Y200040
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #676 послато: Јун 09, 2023, 09:43:06 поподне »
Добро је да је неко то поменуо у научном раду, било је крајње време да се каже оно што је нама мање-више од почетка било очигледно.

Ево и признања из рада на страни 38:

Цитат
The authors thank Ted Kandell (Open Genomes)and Milan Rajevac (Open Genomes, the Society of   Serbian   Genealogists   "Poreklo")for   providing   detailed   Y-chromosome   haplogroup determinations for part of the examined dataset.

Ван мреже НиколаВук

  • Уредник
  • Бели орао
  • *****
  • Поруке: 8478
  • I2-PH908>Y250780>A32852, род Никшића
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #677 послато: Јун 10, 2023, 08:13:23 поподне »
Ево и признања из рада на страни 38:

Ово је свакако велико признање.  :)
Чињеницама против самоувереног незнања.

Ван мреже CosicZ

  • Редакција СДНКП
  • Истраживач
  • ******
  • Поруке: 898
  • Ђурђевдан Y:I1>P109>FGC22045 Панчево
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #678 послато: Август 02, 2023, 05:26:51 пре подне »
Овде покушавају да доведу у везу ширење индоевропских језика са археогенетским налазима т.ј. са ширењем CHG генетике.
https://phys.org/news/2023-07-insights-indo-european-languages.html
Цитат
These analyses estimate the Indo-European family to be approximately 8,100 years old, with five main branches already split off by around 7,000 years ago.

These results are not entirely consistent with either the Steppe or the farming hypotheses. The first author of the study, Paul Heggarty, observed that, "Recent ancient DNA data suggest that the Anatolian branch of Indo-European did not emerge from the Steppe, but from further south, in or near the northern arc of the Fertile Crescent—as the earliest source of the Indo-European family. Our language family tree topology, and our lineage split dates, point to other early branches that may also have spread directly from there, not through the Steppe."

New insights from genetics and linguistics
The authors of the study therefore proposed a new hybrid hypothesis for the origin of the Indo-European languages, with an ultimate homeland south of the Caucasus and a subsequent branch northwards onto the Steppe, as a secondary homeland for some branches of Indo-European entering Europe with the later Yamnaya and Corded Ware-associated expansions.

"Ancient DNA and language phylogenetics thus combine to suggest that the resolution to the 200-year-old Indo-European enigma lies in a hybrid of the farming and Steppe hypotheses," said Gray.

Wolfgang Haak, a Group Leader in the Department of Archaeogenetics at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, says, "Aside from a refined time estimate for the overall language tree, the tree topology and branching order are most critical for the alignment with key archaeological events and shifting ancestry patterns seen in the ancient human genome data. This is a huge step forward from the mutually exclusive, previous scenarios, towards a more plausible model that integrates archaeological, anthropological and genetic findings."


https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg0818
Цитат
It remains unclear, however, where this family’s common ancestral language (Proto-Indo-European) was initially spoken and when and why it spread through Eurasia. The “Steppe” hypothesis posits an expansion out of the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, no earlier than 6500 years before present (yr B.P.), and mostly with horse-based pastoralism from ~5000 yr B.P. An alternative “Anatolian” or “farming” hypothesis posits that Indo-European dispersed with agriculture out of parts of the Fertile Crescent, beginning as early as ~9500 to 8500 yr B.P.

Editor’s summary
Languages of the Indo-European family are spoken by almost half of the world’s population, but their origins and patterns of spread are disputed. Heggarty et al. present a database of 109 modern and 52 time-calibrated historical Indo-European languages, which they analyzed with models of Bayesian phylogenetic inference. Their results suggest an emergence of Indo-European languages around 8000 years before present. This is a deeper root date than previously thought, and it fits with an initial origin south of the Caucasus followed by a branch northward into the Steppe region. These findings lead to a “hybrid hypothesis” that reconciles current linguistic and ancient DNA evidence from both the eastern Fertile Crescent (as a primary source) and the steppe (as a secondary homeland). —Sacha Vignieri

Our results are not entirely consistent with either the Steppe hypothesis or the farming hypothesis. Recent aDNA evidence suggests that the Anatolian branch cannot be sourced to the steppe but rather to south of the Caucasus. For other branches, potential candidate expansion(s) out of the Yamnaya culture are detectable in aDNA, but some had only limited genetic impact. Our results reveal that these expansions from ~5000 yr B.P. onward also came too late for the language chronology of Indo-European divergence. They are consistent, however, with an ultimate homeland south of the Caucasus and a subsequent branch northward onto the steppe, as a secondary homeland for some branches of Indo-European entering Europe with the later Corded Ware–associated expansions.

Ван мреже CosicZ

  • Редакција СДНКП
  • Истраживач
  • ******
  • Поруке: 898
  • Ђурђевдан Y:I1>P109>FGC22045 Панчево
Одг: Древна ДНК
« Одговор #679 послато: Август 02, 2023, 05:40:27 пре подне »
https://www.science.org/doi/suppl/10.1126/science.abg0818/suppl_file/science.abg0818_sm.pdf
Цитат
2.1.4 LATEST ADNA RESULTS AND ALTERNATIVES TO THE STEPPE HYPOTHESIS
Recently published aDNA findings in Europe significantly update and refine the first major results (16). Notably,
populations of the Yamnaya culture on the Pontic-Caspian Steppe no longer appear as the whole or even main
source of the new ancestry component that spread into Central Europe from c. 5000 BP, from further to the east.
The ancestry predominant in aDNA samples from early Corded Ware contexts has recently been reported (39) to
have originated not on the Pontic-Caspian grassland steppe, but further to the north in the ‘forest steppe’ of the
Middle Dnepr region, and towards the Baltic (85). The ancestry predominant in Yamnaya samples entered Central
Europe via the Danubian corridor in a separate expansion further to the south. This conclusion has been challenged
in (23), arguing that the Yamnaya culture on the Pontic-Caspian cannot be excluded as a primary source for Corded
Ware samples, within the limits of the statistical resolution of their analysis. That inference, however, is a function
of the low resolution of their chosen analysis, and of the fact that both Yamnaya and Corded Ware ultimately derive
from a very similar Eneolithic ancestry background that formed c. 7000 BP once CHG ancestry spread north across
the Caucasus.
Recent aDNA results have also more clearly identified an additional, earlier east-to-west expansion, which brought
into the Eastern Mediterranean and the Balkans a quite different ancestry component, predominantly CHG/Iranian
(86, 44, 87). The homogenization of Anatolian and Iranian Neolithic ancestry is attested in Anatolia and the Near
East around 8500 BP (22), from where the mixed ancestry spread westward c. 7000 BP, which is best explained by
continued contacts with the eastern Mediterranean during the Chalcolithic and early Bronze Age (86, 44, 87).
Notably, the westward dissemination of CHG/Iranian, albeit in mixed form and not as a distinct migration event,
predated the expansions from the forest and grassland Steppe by approximately two millennia.
These updated aDNA findings open up potential correlations with processes of expansion and divergence attested
in the topology of the Indo-European language family. By the time that distinct forest vs. grassland steppe
ancestries were expanding westwards deeper into Europe (after c. 5000 BP, by the radiocarbon dating of the aDNA
samples), the linguistic chronology we report here has one already existing split, estimated around 6370 BP (4940-
7860 BP), between branches that make for at least a prima facie rough geographical and chronological fit: the BaltoSlavic clade as opposed to the joint clade of Germanic+Celtic+Italic. Further south, the expansion of CHG/Iranian
ancestry into the eastern Mediterranean and Balkans, without passing through the Steppe (48) and thus without
major admixture with EHG ancestry, presents a closer chronological and geographical match with the remaining,
deeper European branches in our topology, namely Albanian, Greek and Armenian. (To these might be added other
‘Paleo-Balkan’ branches, known of and identifiable as some form of Indo-European, but long since extinct and too
scantily documented to be placed reliably within the Indo-European topology.)
Ancient DNA evidence from the Fertile Crescent (46, 47) has already pointed to a scenario for the origins and
spread of agriculture that is more complex than the original farming hypothesis in which Indo-European languages
spread with the first farmers both westwards into Balkan Europe and eastwards to the Indus. The hybrid
hypothesis, in which some branches of Indo-European reach (Northern) Europe via the steppe as a secondary
homeland, fits with aDNA evidence that starting from c. 7000 BP, populations of the Pontic-Caspian steppe derived
approximately half of their ancestry from a source first found from the southern Caucasus to north-western Iran
(48). On the route by which this CHG/Iranian ancestry reached the Steppe, aDNA evidence is not yet sufficient to
exclude a route via Central Asia, i.e. first eastwards and then north and westwards, counter-clockwise around the
Caspian, as hypothesized in (54). Nonetheless, the more parsimonious explanation, also given the aDNA record for
time-transects through the Caucasus (48), would be a far shorter route directly northwards through the Caucasus,
in line with corresponding expansions in material culture in the archaeological record (48, 88).
Recent aDNA results from the Fertile Crescent and Western Asia more widely (21, 22, 23) find no intrusion of
Steppe ancestry into the region that spoke the Anatolian branch of Indo-European, as entailed by the Steppe
hypothesis. They do detect, however, “an admixture event that biologically connected” regions from Western
Anatolia to the Zagros in northern Iran, admixed into a common “Anatolian/Iranian ancestry cline” (22). Possible
scenarios include population movements westwards and eastwards out of the northern Fertile Crescent, which
could correlate with the early splits to the Anatolian and Indo-Iranic branches in a hybrid hypothesis for IndoEuropean origins.
This admixture event has been dated to c. 8500 BP (22).