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шкрњо:
За сада, због старости налаза, тј. највеће генаеолошке блискости Рјурику (као и идентичног резултата кнежева Четвертинских), Глеб Свјатославич остаје највјероватнији кандидат. Не видим неки проблем у аутозомалу, јер као што Црни Гуја показа, његово скандинавско поријекло је тек око 1/16, а присуство јужноевропске компоненте се слаже са његовим поријеклом по мајчиној линији, тако да је вјероватноћа да скелет није његов мала
Што се Изјаслава Ингваревича тиче, негдје наиђох на податак да је погинуо у Бици на Калки. Ако је то заиста тачно, онда постоји и нека вјероватноћа да скелет није његов, с обзиром на то да та битка представља најтежи пораз који су Руси икад претрпјели од стране Монгола, тек је сваки десети извукао живу главу, а не знам да ли су у општем метежу успјели извући тијело кнеза.

Оно што је такође занимљиво јесте то да је изгледа (мада нисам сигуран да ли у овој студији) тестиран и Јарослав Осмомисл, галички кнез из 12. вијека, који је такође Рјурикович (потомак најстаријег сина Јарослава Мудрог), а испао је E1b-V13. На страну прича о поријеклу Рјуриковича, овај налаз је значајан и због тога што је само један у низу древних ДНК налаза E1b-V13 међу сјевернијим Словенима, којих за сад, неочекивано, има више него налаза R1a. Занимљив текст на ту тему: https://indo-european.eu/2019/04/common-slavs-from-the-lower-danube-expanding-with-haplogroup-e1b-v13/

--- Цитат --- -The “western” cluster of Early Slavs from Brandýsek, Bohemia (ca. AD 600-900).
-Two likely Slavic individuals from Usedom, in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (AD 1200) show hg. R1a-M458 and E1b-M215 (Freder 2010).
-An early West Slav individual from Hrádek nad Nisou in Northern Bohemia (ca. AD 1330) also shows E1b-M215 (Vanek et al. 2015).
-One sample from Székkutas-Kápolnadülő (SzK/239) among middle or late Avars (ca. AD 650-710), a supposed Slavonic-speaking polity, of hg. E1b-V13.
-Two samples from Karosc (K1/13, and K2/6) among Hungarian conquerors (ca. AD 895-950), likely both of hg. E1b-V13, probably connected to the alliance with Moravian elites.
-Possibly a West Slavic sample from Poland in the High Middle Ages (see below).

A later Hungarian sample (II/53) from the Royal Basilica, where King Béla was interred, of hg. E1b1, supports the importance of this haplogroup among elite conquerors, although its original relation to the other buried individuals is unknown.

Even assuming that the R1a sample reported from the late Avar period is of a subclade typically associated with Slavs (I know, circular reasoning here), which is not warranted, we would have already 6 E1b1b vs. 1-2 R1a-M458 in populations that can be actually assumed to represent early Slavonic speakers (unlike many earlier cultures potentially associated with them), clearly earlier than other Slavic-speaking populations that will be sampled in eastern Europe.
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сɣнце:

--- Цитат: шкрњо Август 14, 2019, 12:54:48 пре подне ---За сада, због старости налаза, тј. највеће генаеолошке блискости Рјурику (као и идентичног резултата кнежева Четвертинских), Глеб Свјатославич остаје највјероватнији кандидат.

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Четвертински кнези, то јест кнези, који су родом из Четвертњи у Волину, у вријеме Пољске власти добавили су к својем презимену име Светопука, тако да се пишу Святополк-Четвертински, јер су се традционално сматрали његовим потомцима. Да су били истински потомци Светопука, зар би то морали нагласити?
Уобће су добили кнезовско звање од Николаја I и то услијед недостатка доказних докумената:
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--- Цитат ---..признать Бориса Четвертинского в княжеском достоинстве, принимая во внимание, что ещё в детстве он с сестрами жил в Санкт-Петербурге и пользовался княжеским титулом, по смутным же временам, бывшим при смерти отца его в Польше, находился в совершенной невозможности получить документы, доказывающие его права на княжеское достоинство.

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У сваком случају поријекло из Волина и установљена хаплоскупина у ових кнезова иду руку под руку и вјеројатно никакове изравне родовне везе к Hrürik-у ови немају, но могуће је да су ови, као и тестирани "Глеб" били прислужници или војводе на двору Руриковића.

CosicZ:

--- Цитат ---Fig. 4:
Spatiotemporal patterns of Viking and non-Viking ancestry in Europe during the IA, EVA and VA.
UK = ‘British-like’ / ‘North Atlantic’ ancient ancestry component. Sweden = ‘Swedish-like’ ancient ancestry component. Denmark = ‘Danish-like’ ancient ancestry component. Norway = ‘Norwegian-like’ ancient ancestry component. Italy = ‘Southern European-like’ ancestry component. See Table S11.2 for statistical tests. The ‘Swedish-like’ ancestry is the highest in present-day Estonia due to the ancient samples from the Salme ship burial, which originated from the Mälaren Valley of Sweden, according to archaeological sources.

The eastward movements mainly involved individuals with Swedish-like ancestry, while the Viking individuals with Norwegian-like ancestry travelled to Iceland, Greenland, Ireland and the Isle of Man. A Danish-like ancestry component is more pronounced in present-day England, which is also in accordance with historical records35 and still visible in place-names34, and modern genetics36,37. Importantly, however, it is currently impossible for us to distinguish Danish-like ancestry in the British Isles from that of the Angles and Saxons, who migrated in the 5th-to-6th centuries CE from Jutland and Northern Germany.

However, in some cases, localities seem to have taken up Viking culture while incorporating little to no Scandinavian ancestry components, suggesting that the “Viking” identity was not always necessarily associated with Scandinavian genetic ancestry.

The four ancient genomes of Orkney individuals with little Scandinavian ancestry may be the first ones of Pictish people published to date (Supplementary Note 12). Yet a similar (>80% “UK” ancestry) individual was found in Ireland (VK545) and five in Scandinavia, implying that Pictish populations were integrated into Scandinavian culture by the Viking Age.

Using fineStructure17, we find that the levels of non-Scandinavian ancestry in the Danish, Norwegian and Swedish Vikings agree with known trading routes (Supplementary Notes 11 and 12). The most obvious genetic signals are from Finnish and Baltic sources into the area of what is now modern Sweden, including Gotland. These ancestries are present at considerably lower levels or are completely absent in most individuals from Denmark and Norway. A substantial interaction across the Baltic Sea is also suggested by objects from Finland found in graves in Middle Sweden, albeit recent Sr-isotope analyses are inconclusive regarding the origin of the buried individuals 45,46. In comparison, western regions of Scandinavia have much higher levels of ancestry from the British Isles, in comparison with the eastern regions of Sweden (Supplementary Notes 11 and 12). We also observe several individuals (Supplementary Table 6) with large amounts of South European ancestry in Denmark and southwest Sweden during the Viking period (Fig. 4). No such individuals are found among our Scandinavian Iron Age samples, though we stress that our sampling for this period is more limited than for the other two. The discovery of individuals with ancestry from Southern Europe and the British Isles is the first direct evidence for movement into Scandinavia from these regions. The directions of interaction marked by these individuals is consistent with the major directions of gene flows outwards from Scandinavia also seen in the data.

We find that within Scandinavia, present-day populations are still structured according to the ancient Viking population groups. The component that we associated as Norwegian-like is present at 45-65% in present-day Norway. Similarly, the ancient Swedish-like ancestry is present at 15-30% within Sweden. Of the four Swedish clusters, one is more related to the ancient Finnish than the Swedish-like ancestry, and a second is more related to Danes and Norwegians. Danish-like ancestry is now high across the whole region.

Outside of Scandinavia, the genetic legacy of the Vikings is consistent, though limited. A small component is present in Poland (up to 5%) and the south of Europe. Within the British Isles, it is difficult to assess how much of the Danish-like ancestry is due to pre-existing Anglo-Saxon ancestry; however, the Norwegian-like ancestry is consistently around 4%. The Danish-like contribution is likely to be similar in magnitude and is certainly not larger than 16% as found in Scotland and Ireland. The lack of strong variation in ancestry from Scandinavia makes sense if the Vikings did not maintain a diaspora identity over time but instead integrated into the respective societies in which they settled. The genetic impacts are stronger in the other direction. The ‘British-like’ populations of Orkney became ‘Scandinavian’ culturally, whilst other British populations found themselves in Iceland and Norway, and beyond. Present-day Norwegians vary between 12 and 25% in their ‘British-like’ ancestry, whilst it is still (a more uniform) 10% in Sweden. Separating the VA signals from more recent population movements is difficult, but these numbers are consistent with our VA estimates.
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нцп:

--- Цитат: CosicZ Мај 30, 2022, 06:53:37 пре подне ---

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Једва поменуше Јужну Европу. Без навођења земаља и процената.

CosicZ:

--- Цитат: нцп Мај 30, 2022, 07:09:53 пре подне ---
Једва поменуше Јужну Европу. Без навођења земаља и процената.

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Јужну Европу у овом раду заступа пет узорака из Италије.

Од укупно 442 узорака 184 је постављено на стабла Yfull-а https://www.yfull.com/samples-from-paper/445/ .

О узорцима са Готланда https://gotlandsprojektet.se/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Analysis-and-comparison-DNA-ancient-and-viking-study-updated-ENG.pdf .

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