Аутор Тема: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061  (Прочитано 366785 пута)

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« Одговор #1500 послато: Март 19, 2023, 10:47:21 поподне »
На више мјеста на интернету може се наћи овај цитат "Предања као могуће њихове огранке спомињу Матаруге, Криче, Мацуре, Матагуже, Букумире и Малоншиће.", са извором ПЕТАР ШОБАЈИЋ - БЈЕЛОПАВЛИЋИ И ПЈЕШИВЦИ, str. 54.

https://vdocuments.mx/-563dd34455034635058b532a.html?page=27

Сад сам провјерио, и то није из предања, него Шобајић закључује да је Шпањи био општи назив за сва ова племена, јер их можемо наћи у предањима свих црногорских племена, док су предања о Матаругама ограничене сама на Никшић, предања о Кричима на Дробњак, итд.

Шпањи се исто као и друга староседелачка племена помињу само на одређеном подручју, конкретно у Пјешивцима, Озринићима, Цуцама и Бјелопавлићима. Са Матаругама постоји преклоп подручја у Цуцама, а са Лужанима у Бјелопавлићима и Пјешивцима, док са Кричима и Букумирима рецимо не постоји било какав преклоп. Не видим основ за његов закључак да се под Шпањима могу подразумевати сви староседеоци заједно.

Да ли је негде у литератури записано да Кричи и Матаруге потпадају под Шпање, не сећам се да сам то раније прочитао? Ако се не варам, до сада је као најозбиљнији кандидат за шпањску хаплогрупу фигурирала J2a-Y230579?

Управо тако. С обзиром на то где су Шпањи живели, врло је могуће да од њих потиче генетички род Пјешиваца и Цуца.

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« Одговор #1501 послато: Март 19, 2023, 11:38:35 поподне »
In the already mentioned article it is said: "They [the Drobnjaks], along with the Burmazi, in the mentioned period are considered to be the main transporters of salt from Dubrovnik to Prijepolje."

I searched the Burmazi tribe on the internet and found a Wikipedia article where it is said that it was an Albanian tribe who lived in Bosnia-Herzegovina and was later slavicized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmazi

Ово је тзв. албанска википедијска пропаганда. Без основа присвајају разна српска племена, углавном на основу тумачења имена катуна, што често може навести на погрешан траг. Бурмази, Кричи, па и Матаруге, немају озбиљније генетичко упориште на простору Албаније.

Херцеговачки Бурмази (катун) припадају хаплогрупи I2-PH908, Бурмазовићи из Западне Србије (род/породица) припадају R1a-A11460. Обе хаплогрупе су типичне за словенско становништво и немају превише везе са Албанијом и Албанцима.

Нису тема Бурмази, али један савет за даље: избегавајте цитирање текстова са википедије (посебно пропагандних). Тамо има пуно произвољних закључака. Ми овде доносимо закључке углавном на основу генетике и историјских извора, уз евентуално комбиновање усмених предања.

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Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1502 послато: Март 20, 2023, 09:48:24 пре подне »
This is a three parts message.

Exiled, I try to connect the dots based on the historical and genetic data that is available. But all is not cystal clear, so much of what I write is speculation, based on circumstantial evidence.

The first Drobnjak mentioned in the historical records was Bratigna Dobrognago [Bratinja Dobronjago] in 1285 in Dubrovnik. I have discovered a toponym named Dobroneagu in the Făgăraș Mountains and a toponym named Dobri Nugo in the Durmitor Mountains. Both look similar to Dobrognago [Dobronjago], so we may have a family that migrated between these two places. We also know that the I-FGC22061 haplogroup is found in both regions. But we don’t know the direction of the migration on the Făgăraș-Durmitor line.

At this time I think that maybe the ancestors of my father have done a circuit in the Balkans that took them hundreds of years. They left from Făgăraș Mountains, went to Durmitor Mountains, then to Lika-Senj county, then to Istria and the region on the Croatia-Slovenia border and finally they returned to Făgăraș in the 1700s, when both Croatia and Transylvania were part of the Habsburg empire. This circuit is just a hypothesis, based on the autosomal matches. However, there are many matches that are not on this circuit, matches from Bulgaria, North Macedonia, Greece, Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia. But this is the problem with the autosomal matches, you cannot separate the ones that are strictly on the paternal line, that is the ones that have the I-FGC22061 haplogroup.

As always, genetics will provide the answer to this question, that is, the place in the Balkans where the oldest haplogroup closely related to I-FGC22061 is found, is its place of origin.

At this time, the oldest closely related haplogroup to I-FGC22061 is I-S14887, that belongs to a Hungarian from Harghita county, Rumania, which is next to the Brașov county, where Făgăraș is located.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S14887/

It is known that between 1211-1225 the historical region of Burzenland [“Țara Bîrsei” in Rumanian] was administered by the Teutonic Order. The Teutonic Knights settled in the region numerous German colonists, who remained after the Teutonic Knights were evicted by the Hungarian king. The Teutonic order was formed in northern Germany, and the original Teutons were, according to the ancient sources, from the tip of the Jutland peninsula or even from the Scandinavian peninsula.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Order#Transylvania,_Kingdom_of_Hungary

============
Based on archaeological evidence, it seems German colonization of the region started in the middle of the 12th century during the reign of King Géza II of Hungary. The German colonists from this region are attested in documents as early as 1192 when terra Bozza is mentioned as being settled by Germans (Theutonici).

In 1211 the region was given to the Teutonic Knights by King Andrew II of Hungary in return for guarding the southeastern border of the Kingdom of Hungary against the Cumans. [...] The Teutonic Knights began building wood-and-earth forts in the area and they had constructed five castles (quinque castra fortia): Marienburg, Schwarzenburg, Rosenau, Kreuzburg, and Kronstadt [present-day Brașov], some of which were made of stone. The military order was successful in reducing the threat of the nomadic Cumans. Medieval Saxons from the Holy Roman Empire developed farms and villages nearby to support the forts and settle the land. The territory was already populated at the time when was disputed. Some medieval sources indicate it was uninhabited, a view challenged by some scholars invoking archaeological and documentary evidence. Bountiful agricultural yields led to further colonization by German immigrants.
[...]
Along with Germans, the kings of Hungary also settled Szeklers and Pechenegs in the region during the 12th and 13th centuries. Archaeological evidence for the same period also suggests a strong Romanian population inhabiting the villages later known as Șcheii Brașovului, Satulung, Baciu, Cernatu, and Turcheș (the former is today part of Brașov, while the latter four are today part of the adjacent town of Săcele).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzenland
==========

Maybe the Hungarian with the I-S14887 haplogroup is not closely related to the I-FGC22061 Balkan cluster. He has only 8 shared SNPs with my father, compared with 37-41 shared SNPs with the South Slavic cluster. And because I have not uploaded the BAM file, I don’t know how how many Y-STR differences my father has with the Hungarian. But that’s not important. The existence of the I-S14887 haplogroup in Transylvania means that it is possible that the I-FGC22061 haplogroup also originated there.

A new development relating to the I-P109 haplogroup is that now there are also two Bulgarians that have it. One lists his earliest known paternal ancestor as Ilarion Mitev from Obnova, Pleven region and the other as Stoyan Varban from Babek, Plovdiv. Obnova is 30 km from the Rumanian border and Babek is in central Bulgaria, so neither is close to North Macedonia.

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/bulgariandna/dna-results
I have to admit that teory about Teutonians sounds very interesting.

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Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1503 послато: Март 20, 2023, 05:47:03 поподне »
Neboysha [Небојша], I posted what I have found on the internet about the Burmazi. There is no article about this tribe on the Serbian Wikipedia. In fact, from what I have seen, there is nothing about the Burmazi in Serbian on the internet, except for the Poreklo forum thread, which was derailed in a personal dispute from the start. If you don’t like what is said in the Wikipedia article, write a short article from your point of view, add the historical sources that support what you say and post it on the Serbian Wikipedia. If there was a Serbian article about the Burmazi, with a different point of view to the Albanian one, then the English article would not be a translation of the Albanian article, like it is today.

I will post again quotes from Wikipedia if there is nothing else on the internet about a subject that I refer to. The article in English about the Burmazi has historical sources, and not only Albanian ones. The real problem is the lack of the article in Serbian. If the Burmazi are a Serbian tribe, they deserve an article. If there is only one point of view expressed on Wikipedia you cannot say that it is propaganda, because anyone is free to post an article there. Many will think that a single point of view means that it’s accepted by all and this is why other points of view are not expressed.

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Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1504 послато: Март 20, 2023, 11:07:17 поподне »
So according to wikipedia article this is the basis to claim the Burmazi tribe as Albanian:
“ The name Burmazi is a compound of the Albanian words burr (man) + madh (big or great).[2] The form Burmazi instead of Burmadhi signifies a retained characteristic from an older phase in the Albanian language before /z/ settled into the voiced dental fricative /ð/.[3]”
Even if this is the case, names and the last names are not the holy grails in deciding ancestry. The haplogroups of the Burmazi tribe and the bearers of Burmazovic last name, being I2-PH908 and R1a-A11460 respectively can’t be attributed to Albanians but are Slavic in origin.

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« Одговор #1505 послато: Март 21, 2023, 12:08:55 пре подне »
Even more so the Turkish words "Birmiş" with a meaning united or being one and "Burmak" meaning "to twist or screw, to wring..." are the probable roots of the Burmazi tribe name. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/burmak

Bir is the spindle in Turkish and iş means the craft and if the Burmazi Vlachs trade was production of wool yarn or fabric, that's how they got their name.

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Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1506 послато: Март 27, 2023, 06:06:43 поподне »
This is again a three part message.

I used two threads from the Poreklo.rs forum, the one with the newly tested by the Serbian DNA Project and the one with the newly tested at 23andMe and other DNA companies, in order to create a map of all of those that were mentioned in these threads as having the haplogroup I-P109 or one of its branches. I opened one of the mentioned forum threads and clicked on the “Print” [Штампај] button in order to display all the pages of the thread as a single page, then used the “Find in Page” command [Ctrl+F] to search for the string “109”, and collected all the names and places of birth of those that have the I-P109 haplogroup (only the men that have added information about their place of birth were included). Using the information gathered like this, I then created a map with Google My Maps. You can see it at the address below, where you can zoom the map in and out. There are also some men present on the map who were not mentioned in the threads. If you click on the corresponding map markers, you will find information about them. If I missed someone who was tested and his place of birth is known, tell me, and I will add him to the map.

Address of the map:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1vUVGMnK_Jqmyq_ZT0aiAS2bxaFtSgc4&usp=sharing

The map is color coded:

1) Blue markers: Their surnames do not appear as surnames of my father’s autosomal matches on Ancestry, 23andMe or MyHeritage.

2) Brown markers: Their surnames appear as surnames of my father’s autosomal matches, but not on their direct paternal line. That is, the surnames of those Y-DNA tested are not the same as the surnames of my father's autosomal matches. For example, there is a man named Martinović who has been found as having the I-P109 haplogroup by the Serbian DNA Project. My father has an autosomal match who is not named Martinović, but has an ancestor with this name.

3) Red markers: Their surnames appear as surnames of my father’s autosomal matches on their direct paternal line. That is, the surnames of those Y-DNA tested are the same as the surnames of my father's autosomal matches. For example, there is a man named Brašanac who has been found as having the I-P109 haplogroup by the Serbian DNA Project. My father has an autosomal match named Brašanac.

4) Dark blue markers: Y-111 matches with my father, the closest relatives on the Y chromosome.

Below is a list with those whose surnames appears as ancestral surnames of my father’s autosomal matches:

-----------
MANDIĆ (I-P109): Gornji Stranjani, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Mandić (b.= born, d. = died):

J. McNair (11 cM): Margaretha Mandic (b. Bribir, Croatia).
D. Mandich (9 cM): Stevo Mandić (d. Sibenik-Knin, Croatia).
N. Hantl (15,6 cM): Marko Mandić (probably from Kaštela, Croatia, on the sea coast, very close to Split)

--------------

BRAŠANAC (I-P109): Donje Babine, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Brašanac:

M. Brasanac (16 cM): Danilo Brašanac (b. Babine, Prijepolje, Zlatibor, Serbia)
M. Brasanac appears as an autosomal match on Ancestry, MyHeritage and FTDNA.

The Y-DNA tested Brašanac is either the same person or from the same family as the autosomal match.

------------

MARTINOVIĆ (I-P109): Donje Babine, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Martinović:

D. Simurina (10 cM): Giovanni Martinolich (b.1610 Mali Lošinj, Primorje-Gorski, Croatia).  The name was later changed to Martinović (Mihovil Martinović b. 1683 Mali Iž, Zadar, Croatia). It is possible that Martinoli was the original Italian name.
https://tehnika.lzmk.hr/martinolic/

F. Bosnich (7 cM): Marco Martinovic Rovinjez (b. 1751, possibly in Blato, Korcula, Dalmatia, where his son was born). Or his was born in Rovinj, Istria, Croatia, like the name Rovinjez tends to suggest. Another Y-DNA tested, Brčić (I-P109), is from Rovinj.

F. Radović (19 cM): The name Martinović is mentioned as an ancestral name. Has 3 grandparents from Zaječar / Brza Palanka, Bor District / Ljubičevac, Bor District, Serbia and 1 grandparent from Metković, Općina Metković, Dubrovnik-Neretva County, Croatia.

V. Schneider (9 cM): Emilie Martinović (b. probably in Erdevik, Serbia, where her daughter was born).

M. Topić: Zorka Martinović (b. 1929 in Bosnia-Herzegovina).

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ŠABANOVIĆ (I-P109): Bijelo Polje, Montenegro

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Šabanović:

B. Arslan (13,5 cM): Eyub Sabanovic (b. probably in Sancak, like his wife, Mida Sulic). Another ancestor named Razim Kurtovic was also born there. Sancak is possibly a misspelling of Sandžak / Sanjak, the historical region from southern Serbia and northern Montenegro.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand%C5%BEak

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BOŠKOVIĆ (I-P109): Dramešina, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Šabanović:

F. Femic (16 cM). Has a private tree, but Ancestry search says that the name Boskovic is in the tree.

-----------

JAKŠIĆ (I-P109): Sokolac, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Jakšić:

I. Jakšić (14, 6 cM): Frane Jakšić (b. in Croatia)

----------
« Последња измена: Март 27, 2023, 06:15:51 поподне abmunteanu »

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Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1507 послато: Март 27, 2023, 06:08:48 поподне »
-------------

SARIĆ  (I-P109): Belanovica, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Sarić:

A.M. Juric (8 cM): Josip Sarić (b. probably in Šibenik, Croatia).

F. Matosevic (13 cM):  The name Sarić is mentioned as an ancestral name. Has 2 grandparents from Bosnia-Herzegovina, 1 grandparent from Opatija, Općina Opatija, Primorje-Gorski Kotar County, Croatia and 1 grandparent from Knapići, Općina Sveti Lovreč, Istarska županija, Croatia.

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LUKIĆ (I-P109): There are 3 Lukić with this haplogroup, one from Zagorica, Serbia, one from Kriva Bara, Bosnia and Herzegovina and one from Semizovac, Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Lukić:

M. Lukic (8 cM) and I. Lukic (8 cM): They have no trees on Ancestry.

---------

GRUBIŠIĆ (I-P109): Velika Popina, Croatia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Grubišić:

D. Pate (7 cM): Ana Grubišić (b. 1770 probably in Brestova Draga, Primorje-Gorski, Croatia).

--------

SRDANOVIĆ (I-P109): Kosorići, Montenegro

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Srdanović:

F. Femic (16 cM). Has a private tree, but Ancestry search says that the name Srdanović is in the tree.

-------

ŽIVANOVIĆ (I-P109): Božurnja, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Živanović:

K. Norman (8 cM) and N. Jovicic (8 cM): Both don’t specify where their Živanović ancestors were born.

-------

JOVANOVIĆ (I-P109): Užice, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Jovanović:

C. Holsted (7 cM): Jelena Jovanović (b. 1835 Zagon, Croatia)
R. Jovanović (16 cM): Doesn’t say where his paternal ancestor was born. Has the E-M123 haplogroup.
A. Petrović (8,3 cM): Dusanka Jovanovic (b. in Serbia)

--------

SEKULIĆ (I-P109): Guncati, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Sekulić:

S. Dimitrijevic (9 cM): Ancestors named Sekulić born in Serbia.
H. Bosnak-Mathis (9 cM): Joseph Sekulić (b. in Croatia)
I. Radosavljevic (13,6 cM): Draga Sekulić (b. probably in Niš, Serbia, like her son)

--------

TOMIĆ (I-P109): Timar, Montenegro

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Tomić:

J. Tomich (18 cM): Risto Tomić (b. 1870 probably in Travnik, Mostar, Bosnia and Herzegovina, like his son)
N.V. Cvetkov (11 cM): Anda Tomić (b. probably in Klobuk, Ljubuški, Bosnia and Herzegovina, like her daughter)
D. Pate (7 cM): Petar Tomić (b. 1678 Lic, Primorje-Gorski, Croatia)
C. Holsted (7 cM): Miho Tomić (b. 1738 Lic, Primorje-Gorski, Croatia)
S. Cinthio (8 cM): Rusa Tomić (b. probably in Gradac, Bosnia and Herzegovina)

--------

STANKOVIĆ (I-P109): Dobroselica, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Stanković:

Regittnig (10 cM): Widosawa Stankovic (b. 1929 Leskovac, Jablanica, Serbia)
F. Femic (16 cM). Has a private tree, but Ancestry search says that the name Stanković is in the tree.
G. Stojanović (8,3 cM): Stanković (b. probably in Velika Grabovnica, Leskovac, Serbia, like his daughter)

--------

RADIĆ (I-P109): Donja Rača, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Radić:

A.M. Juric (8 cM): Jelena Radić (b. probably in Šibenik, Croatia).

--------

OSTOJIĆ (I-P109): Vrela, Montenegro

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Ostojić:

D. Golijan (14 cM): Milka Ostojić (b. probably in Bosnia-Herzegovina)

--------

RADOVANOVIĆ (I-P109): Velika Plana, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Radovanović:

M. Milovanović (8,4 cM): Dragutin Radovanović (b. in Serbia)

--------

JANKOVIĆ (I-P109): Rečice, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Janković:

S. Ginic (22,7 cM): Stanko Janković (b. in Serbia)

--------

MIKIĆ (I-P109): Kaoci, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Mikić:

J. Lichina (13 cM): Maria Mikić (b. probably in Macute, Serbian Republic, Bosnia, like her son)

--------

MILINOVIĆ (I-P109): Gospić, Croatia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Milinović:

M. Milinovic (8 cM): Milanko Milinovic (b.1881 Zalužnica, Lika-Senj county, Croatia)

--------

RUKAVINA (I-P109): Lika-Senj County, Croatia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Rukavina:

D. Rukavina (14 cM): Ivan Rukavina (b. probably in Lika-Senj County, Croatia). There is no tree, only two names, I. Rukavina and Ana Kovacevic (b. in Lika Senj county, Croatia - d. in Zagreb, Croatia). D. Rukavina lives in Scandinavia (not clear where, maybe Norway) and the tested Rukavina lives in Denmark. They are very probably from the same family.

P. Riche (7 cM): Anton Rukavina (b. 1824 Volarice, Lika-Senj, Croatia)

---------

MUHOVIĆ (I-P109): Foča, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Muhović:

H. Begović (14 cM): Mentions Muhović as an ancestral name. All her grandparents are from Herzegovina-Neretva Canton, Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

---------

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Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1508 послато: Март 27, 2023, 06:11:23 поподне »
------------

ĆOSIĆ (I-P109): Zadar, Croatia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Ćosić:

M. Beslic (15,7 cM): Miroslava Cosic (b. probably in Kupres, Bosnia and Herzegovina)
S. Besic Greatheart (7 cM): Senija Cosic (b. 1928 Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina)
P. Kis (9 cM): Anda Cosic (d. in Livno, Bosnia)

---------

SUBOTIĆ (I-P109): Osečenica, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Subotić:

D. Subotic (15,5 cM): Bozo Subotic (b. in Bosnia and Herzegovina)

---------

BABIĆ (I-P109): Azanja, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Babić:

J. Lichina (13 cM): Franciska Babic (b. in Trebelno, Mokronog-Trebelno, Slovenia, very close to the border with Croatia)
H. Bosnak-Mathis (9 cM): Manda Babic (b. in Croatia)
M. Babich Tarro (8 cM): Joseph Bobic (b.1868 Lukovdol, Primorje-Gorski, Croatia, very close to the border with Slovenia)
N. Babic (11,2 cM): Doesn’t offer any genealogical information about him, but M. Brasanac is a shared match.
S. Babich (8 cM): Fabijan Babich (b. Sveti Juraj u Trnju, Medimurje, Croatia)

----------

PETROVIĆ (I-P109): Meterizi, Montenegro

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Petrović:

G. Petrović (10 cM): Milovan Petrovic (b. Mali Pozarevac, Serbia)
A. Petrovich (7 cM): Nicholas Petrovich (b. Surčin, Serbia)
K. DeMonja (8 cM): Petra Petrovic (b. 1858 Dabrina, Sisak-Moslavina, Croatia)
D. Pate (7 cM): Bartol Petrovic (b. 1765 Croatia)
S. Petrovic (11 cM): Paternal grandparents from Ljubovija, Mačva District, Serbia. Has the I-S17250 haplogroup.
F. Radović (19 cM): The name Petrović is mentioned as an ancestral name. Has 3 grandparents from Zaječar / Brza Palanka, Bor District / Ljubičevac, Bor District, Serbia and 1 grandparent from Metković, Općina Metković, Dubrovnik-Neretva County, Croatia. Has the R-CTS9219 haplogroup.
K. Dancejić (21 cM): The name Petrović is mentioned as an ancestral name. All grandparents are from Serbia.
A. Petrovic (8,3 cM): Ljuba Petrovic (b. in Serbia)

---------

ILIĆ (I-P109): Crnče, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Ilić:

L. Stipanov (8 cM): Milica Ilic (b. Pađene, Sibenik-Knin, Croatia)
A. Stamenkovic (17 cM): Milan Ilic (b. Belgrade, Serbia)

There are many other matches with the ancestral name Ilić, but they don’t offer any genealogical information about the Ilić ancestors.

-----------

PAVLOVIĆ (I-P109): Brekovo, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Pavlović:

V. Mazek (11 cM): Has 1 grandparent from Slovenia and 2 from Serbia. Mentions the name Pavlovic as an ancestral name. Birthplaces of his ancestors: Belgrade, Smederevo, Bled, Celje, Maribor.

There are many other matches with the ancestral name Pavlović, but they don’t offer any genealogical information about the Pavlović ancestors.

----------

KAHRIMAN (I-P109): Setihovo, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Kahriman:

M. Kahriman Mehic (16,6 cM): Nurko Kahriman (b. in Bosnia-Herzegovina).
Anonymous (8,7 cM): Paša Kahrimanović (b. in Bijeljina, Bosnia-Herzegovina)

--------

JAKOVLJEVIĆ (I-P109): Mrkonjić Grad, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Jakovljević:

M. Milovanović (8,4 cM): Radmila Jakovljević (b. probably in Ratkovac, Serbia)
M. Bilic (13,3 cM): Borivoje Jakovljevic (b.1920 Serbia)

----------

JOKIĆ (I-P109): Rača, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Jokić:

I. Mrdalj (6 cM): Milan Jokic (b. Zadar, Croatia)

----------

HODŽIĆ (I-P109): Sanski Most, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Hodžić:

M. Mulalic (14,5 cM): Mina Hhodzic (b. in Bosnia and Herzegovina)

----------

KULIĆ (I-P109): Vrapci, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Kulić:

T. Dokmic (8,7 cM): Stevo Kulic (b. in Bosnia and Herzegovina)

---------

GJOKA (I-P109): Pogradec, Albania

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Gjoka:

P. Gjocaj (16 cM): No genealogical data
J. Gjokaj (8 cM): No genealogical data

----------

ALBANIAN  1 (I-P109): Mali i Bardhë, Albania
I know his surname, but I was asked not to make it public.

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with his surname:

Q. Djelovic (17 cM):  has a great-grandmother from Montenegro with the surname of Albanian 1.

---------

ALBANIAN  3 (I-P109): Mat, Albania
I know his surname, but I was asked not to make it public.

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with his surname:
T. Gojani (7 cM): has a great-grandmother from Kruje, Durres, Albania with the surname of Albanian 3.

----------

MITEV (I-P109):  Obnova, Bulgaria

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Mitev:

M. Dimitrov (12 cM): Ilia Mitev (b. Palamartsa, Turgovishte, Bulgaria)
D. Paulson (13,1 cM): Persa Miteva (b. Jeloshnik, Tearce, North Macedonia, close to Skopje)

----------

Ван мреже Exiled

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« Одговор #1509 послато: Март 27, 2023, 06:23:34 поподне »
------------

ĆOSIĆ (I-P109): Zadar, Croatia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Ćosić:

M. Beslic (15,7 cM): Miroslava Cosic (b. probably in Kupres, Bosnia and Herzegovina)
S. Besic Greatheart (7 cM): Senija Cosic (b. 1928 Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina)
P. Kis (9 cM): Anda Cosic (d. in Livno, Bosnia)

---------

SUBOTIĆ (I-P109): Osečenica, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Subotić:

D. Subotic (15,5 cM): Bozo Subotic (b. in Bosnia and Herzegovina)

---------

BABIĆ (I-P109): Azanja, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Babić:

J. Lichina (13 cM): Franciska Babic (b. in Trebelno, Mokronog-Trebelno, Slovenia, very close to the border with Croatia)
H. Bosnak-Mathis (9 cM): Manda Babic (b. in Croatia)
M. Babich Tarro (8 cM): Joseph Bobic (b.1868 Lukovdol, Primorje-Gorski, Croatia, very close to the border with Slovenia)
N. Babic (11,2 cM): Doesn’t offer any genealogical information about him, but M. Brasanac is a shared match.
S. Babich (8 cM): Fabijan Babich (b. Sveti Juraj u Trnju, Medimurje, Croatia)

----------

PETROVIĆ (I-P109): Meterizi, Montenegro

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Petrović:

G. Petrović (10 cM): Milovan Petrovic (b. Mali Pozarevac, Serbia)
A. Petrovich (7 cM): Nicholas Petrovich (b. Surčin, Serbia)
K. DeMonja (8 cM): Petra Petrovic (b. 1858 Dabrina, Sisak-Moslavina, Croatia)
D. Pate (7 cM): Bartol Petrovic (b. 1765 Croatia)
S. Petrovic (11 cM): Paternal grandparents from Ljubovija, Mačva District, Serbia. Has the I-S17250 haplogroup.
F. Radović (19 cM): The name Petrović is mentioned as an ancestral name. Has 3 grandparents from Zaječar / Brza Palanka, Bor District / Ljubičevac, Bor District, Serbia and 1 grandparent from Metković, Općina Metković, Dubrovnik-Neretva County, Croatia. Has the R-CTS9219 haplogroup.
K. Dancejić (21 cM): The name Petrović is mentioned as an ancestral name. All grandparents are from Serbia.
A. Petrovic (8,3 cM): Ljuba Petrovic (b. in Serbia)

---------

ILIĆ (I-P109): Crnče, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Ilić:

L. Stipanov (8 cM): Milica Ilic (b. Pađene, Sibenik-Knin, Croatia)
A. Stamenkovic (17 cM): Milan Ilic (b. Belgrade, Serbia)

There are many other matches with the ancestral name Ilić, but they don’t offer any genealogical information about the Ilić ancestors.

-----------

PAVLOVIĆ (I-P109): Brekovo, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Pavlović:

V. Mazek (11 cM): Has 1 grandparent from Slovenia and 2 from Serbia. Mentions the name Pavlovic as an ancestral name. Birthplaces of his ancestors: Belgrade, Smederevo, Bled, Celje, Maribor.

There are many other matches with the ancestral name Pavlović, but they don’t offer any genealogical information about the Pavlović ancestors.

----------

KAHRIMAN (I-P109): Setihovo, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Kahriman:

M. Kahriman Mehic (16,6 cM): Nurko Kahriman (b. in Bosnia-Herzegovina).
Anonymous (8,7 cM): Paša Kahrimanović (b. in Bijeljina, Bosnia-Herzegovina)

--------

JAKOVLJEVIĆ (I-P109): Mrkonjić Grad, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Jakovljević:

M. Milovanović (8,4 cM): Radmila Jakovljević (b. probably in Ratkovac, Serbia)
M. Bilic (13,3 cM): Borivoje Jakovljevic (b.1920 Serbia)

----------

JOKIĆ (I-P109): Rača, Serbia

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Jokić:

I. Mrdalj (6 cM): Milan Jokic (b. Zadar, Croatia)

----------

HODŽIĆ (I-P109): Sanski Most, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Hodžić:

M. Mulalic (14,5 cM): Mina Hhodzic (b. in Bosnia and Herzegovina)

----------

KULIĆ (I-P109): Vrapci, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Kulić:

T. Dokmic (8,7 cM): Stevo Kulic (b. in Bosnia and Herzegovina)

---------

GJOKA (I-P109): Pogradec, Albania

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Gjoka:

P. Gjocaj (16 cM): No genealogical data
J. Gjokaj (8 cM): No genealogical data

----------

ALBANIAN  1 (I-P109): Mali i Bardhë, Albania
I know his surname, but I was asked not to make it public.

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with his surname:

Q. Djelovic (17 cM):  has a great-grandmother from Montenegro with the surname of Albanian 1.

---------

ALBANIAN  3 (I-P109): Mat, Albania
I know his surname, but I was asked not to make it public.

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with his surname:
T. Gojani (7 cM): has a great-grandmother from Kruje, Durres, Albania with the surname of Albanian 3.

----------

MITEV (I-P109):  Obnova, Bulgaria

Autosomal matches that have ancestors with the surname Mitev:

M. Dimitrov (12 cM): Ilia Mitev (b. Palamartsa, Turgovishte, Bulgaria)
D. Paulson (13,1 cM): Persa Miteva (b. Jeloshnik, Tearce, North Macedonia, close to Skopje)

----------
Mislim rodjače da bi trebo da otvoriš svoju temu pa kom opanci kom obojci...ovako zatrpavaš o svojoj uskoj grani i obezvredjuješ istraživanja drugih Drobnjaka. Nije bilo na meni da ovo kažem ali ...bi ga.

Ван мреже Ojler

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Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1510 послато: Март 27, 2023, 06:43:02 поподне »
Mislim rodjače da bi trebo da otvoriš svoju temu pa kom opanci kom obojci...ovako zatrpavaš o svojoj uskoj grani i obezvredjuješ istraživanja drugih Drobnjaka. Nije bilo na meni da ovo kažem ali ...bi ga.
Аферим!
Kамене рабъ и госодинъ

Ван мреже Ивица Јовановић

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« Одговор #1511 послато: Март 28, 2023, 02:44:09 поподне »
Acesti oameni buni au dreptate, subiectul este ingropat. Literal, refuza pe alti sa participe. Deschideti subiectul in care veti face cercetarea origini. Desi, daca vrem sa fim realist, daca est id:YF102130, atunci nu poti s fi altceva deca Drobnjak (patriliniar). In ceea ce priveste originea tribului in sine, aceasta poate fi discutata intr un altu subiect (fie ca sunt normanzi, sasi, sau alti nordici).
Милутин Бранковић, 4. ескадрон Коњичке дивизије. Крф 26.04.1916.
Сава Питић, 13. Пук. Острво Видo 24.01.1916.
Сима Мијуцић, 9. пешадијски пук. Браунау 1917.

Ван мреже abmunteanu

Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1512 послато: Март 29, 2023, 05:04:05 поподне »
So, Exiled and Ivica Jovanović, if I understand correctly, you were contacted by members of the forum that have the I-FGC22061 haplogroup, who told you that they refuse to post in this thread as long as I post in it. Is this true? If yes, I think it’s ridiculous, because I don’t see the problem. Lately I have been posting once a week and there were 6 other days in the week in which anyone could have posted in the thread. But they didn't do it, because my posts were disturbing for them or what? There is plenty of space in the thread for all the posts. And if you don’t like someone’s posts, you can just ignore them and write your own posts. Also, I don’t see what is the problem with researching the origin of the Drobnjak tribe on this thread, because this subject has been discussed beginning with the first page.

But if my posts are the ones that inhibit others to post in the thread, I won’t post anymore. Goodbye.

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« Одговор #1513 послато: Март 29, 2023, 05:26:48 поподне »
Управо тако. С обзиром на то где су Шпањи живели, врло је могуће да од њих потиче генетички род Пјешиваца и Цуца.

Пјешивци и Шпањи би могли имати и исти језички коријен. На грчком spanos значи без браде, а на словенском пјешив значи ћелав.

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« Одговор #1514 послато: Март 29, 2023, 05:34:41 поподне »
So, Exiled and Ivica Jovanović, if I understand correctly, you were contacted by members of the forum that have the I-FGC22061 haplogroup, who told you that they refuse to post in this thread as long as I post in it. Is this true? If yes, I think it’s ridiculous, because I don’t see the problem. Lately I have been posting once a week and there were 6 other days in the week in which anyone could have posted in the thread. But they didn't do it, because my posts were disturbing for them or what? There is plenty of space in the thread for all the posts. And if you don’t like someone’s posts, you can just ignore them and write your own posts. Also, I don’t see what is the problem with researching the origin of the Drobnjak tribe on this thread, because this subject has been discussed beginning with the first page.

But if my posts are the ones that inhibit others to post in the thread, I won’t post anymore. Goodbye.
Ја то нисам рекао, нико ме није контактирао, рекао сам ти шта мислим. Приватизовао си тему и зато сам реаговао. Ја имам на три компаније око 7000 мечева на аутосомалу, је ли треба да их све анализирам на теми о једном роду? Само мало реалности и биће све у реду. Ја нити имам право нити имам жељу да било кога спутавам у својим истраживањима али морамо мало мислити и о другима.

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« Одговор #1515 послато: Март 30, 2023, 08:30:48 пре подне »
Пјешивци и Шпањи би могли имати и исти језички коријен. На грчком spanos значи без браде, а на словенском пјешив значи ћелав.
Мислим да се у оба случаја мисли на становнике голих, кршних крајева, пре него на физичке особине. Односно-Голобрђани. Писао је неко овде о томе. Можда ти :). Мене занима етимологија Јаудија. Подсећа на Јевреје, а имамо у хаплогрупу Q и ашкенаски кластер ако се не варам, плус Братоножиће. Занимљиво, али не знам колико има везе једно с другим.

Ван мреже CosicZ

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« Одговор #1516 послато: Март 30, 2023, 09:14:09 пре подне »
Приметио сам да је покренут https://www.poreklo.rs/projekti/projekat-geneticke-profilizacije-roda-drobnjaka-novljana-i1p109fgc22045fgc22061/ . Одлично!

Мислим да до сада није коментарисан YF111903 са https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/I-FGC22061*/ , судећи по митохондријалној хаплогрупи вероватно са ових простора. https://www.yfull.com/mtree/H11a2c/
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/h11_genbank_sequences.htm H11a2 A14587G 3. JQ704166(Italy) Behar

YF114312 је тренутно на https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/I-S14887a*/ , дакле није баш близак I-FGC22061 ( мада има рођака у Србији с мајчине стране https://www.yfull.com/mtree/W1e1a1/ ).

Мени лично не смета оно што пише abmunteanu, мада ја нисам мерило, јер ми не би сметало ни да пише о плетењу чарапа. Волим, ипак, толерантну расправу. Она је корисна за форум, за разлику од свађа. Мислим да, ако постоји проблем у његовим напорима, онда је у томе да ће га тешко довести до рођака на Балкану. Боље би било у таблицама Порекла потражити тестиране са којима YF102130 има STR поклапања, па онда додатним тестирањима проверити да ли су https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/I-PH3895/ . Да ли је ова подгрупа дробњачког порекла зависи од тога да ли је најближи заједнички предак свих I-FGC22061 био Дробњак или је то постао тек само неки од његових потомака.
https://www.genetichomeland.com/dna-marker/chromosome-Y/PH3895
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/I;name=I-PH3895
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-PH3895/tree

Ван мреже Exiled

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« Одговор #1517 послато: Март 30, 2023, 11:07:41 пре подне »
Приметио сам да је покренут https://www.poreklo.rs/projekti/projekat-geneticke-profilizacije-roda-drobnjaka-novljana-i1p109fgc22045fgc22061/ . Одлично!

Мислим да до сада није коментарисан YF111903 са https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/I-FGC22061*/ , судећи по митохондријалној хаплогрупи вероватно са ових простора. https://www.yfull.com/mtree/H11a2c/
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/h11_genbank_sequences.htm H11a2 A14587G 3. JQ704166(Italy) Behar

YF114312 је тренутно на https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/I-S14887a*/ , дакле није баш близак I-FGC22061 ( мада има рођака у Србији с мајчине стране https://www.yfull.com/mtree/W1e1a1/ ).

Мени лично не смета оно што пише abmunteanu, мада ја нисам мерило, јер ми не би сметало ни да пише о плетењу чарапа. Волим, ипак, толерантну расправу. Она је корисна за форум, за разлику од свађа. Мислим да, ако постоји проблем у његовим напорима, онда је у томе да ће га тешко довести до рођака на Балкану. Боље би било у таблицама Порекла потражити тестиране са којима YF102130 има STR поклапања, па онда додатним тестирањима проверити да ли су https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/I-PH3895/ . Да ли је ова подгрупа дробњачког порекла зависи од тога да ли је најближи заједнички предак свих I-FGC22061 био Дробњак или је то постао тек само неки од његових потомака.
https://www.genetichomeland.com/dna-marker/chromosome-Y/PH3895
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/I;name=I-PH3895
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-PH3895/tree
Видим да је су у пратећем тексту наведени неки родови као Новљански али генетечки не припадају њима,дробњачки без сумње али новљански је упитно. Трепчани на пример.

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Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1518 послато: Април 26, 2023, 09:45:11 пре подне »
Можда је ово већ било на форуму, нисам испратио, само ми је занимљив овај крак који до наших крајева долази Дунавом са истока.

Фејсбук страница Yfull је пренела пост са "News from Science"

A massive effort to sequence the DNA of Vikings across Europe was published in 2020. The study revealed family histories of Vikings who set forth—and died—far from home.



https://www.science.org/content/article/viking-was-job-description-not-matter-heredity-massive-ancient-dna-study-shows?utm_medium=ownedSocial&utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0bSCh0qS0tmBhNkMZK-jUC-1XELWl44hIIF5sHV5s5qtrIdL4WAdlTWy0
« Последња измена: Април 26, 2023, 09:46:52 пре подне Мића »
"Превише интересовања, премало времена" И. Анђелковић

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Одг: Дробњаци - Новљани I1>P109>FGC22045>FGC22061
« Одговор #1519 послато: Април 26, 2023, 11:01:55 пре подне »
Можда је ово већ било на форуму, нисам испратио, само ми је занимљив овај крак који до наших крајева долази Дунавом са истока.

Фејсбук страница Yfull је пренела пост са "News from Science"

A massive effort to sequence the DNA of Vikings across Europe was published in 2020. The study revealed family histories of Vikings who set forth—and died—far from home.



https://www.science.org/content/article/viking-was-job-description-not-matter-heredity-massive-ancient-dna-study-shows?utm_medium=ownedSocial&utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0bSCh0qS0tmBhNkMZK-jUC-1XELWl44hIIF5sHV5s5qtrIdL4WAdlTWy0
Чланак сугерише да би "наши Швеђани" могли доћи са Словенима на Балкан с тим што не би искључио ни опцију да су се можда срели на Балкану са својима из Сардиније. Оно што је мени лично занимљиво је да индицира долазак моје мајчинске гране са Викинзима јер је грана H17 типична за Брите и Скандинавце.