Аутор Тема: Question about Serbian language  (Прочитано 1900 пута)

Ван мреже Michelle Batalo Mills

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Question about Serbian language
« послато: Август 23, 2020, 03:50:54 пре подне »
Hi! 
I know the Serbian language is difficult to learn (especially if not in a home environment or educational setting.)  So I realize my inquiry may not be able to answered fully in a forum.

Why do names (both people and places) have various endings/forms?
Example:  BATALO Dukana  .......  Mrzlom Polju

Why is there an A at the end of his name?   
Why are the letters changed at the end of Mrzlo Polje?

Thanks!

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #1 послато: Август 23, 2020, 07:00:35 пре подне »
Declination like in Latin.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #2 послато: Август 23, 2020, 09:35:30 пре подне »
Yes, search for grammatical cases in Serbian. It is not easy, but it is not too complicated as well :)

https://fastlanguagemastery.com/learn-foreign-languages/serbian-language/introduction-to-serbian-cases/

When you search for names or places in our digital library, better add * so that the search includes different endings :)

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #3 послато: Август 23, 2020, 10:22:30 пре подне »
Hi! 
I know the Serbian language is difficult to learn (especially if not in a home environment or educational setting.)  So I realize my inquiry may not be able to answered fully in a forum.

Why do names (both people and places) have various endings/forms?
Example:  BATALO Dukana  .......  Mrzlom Polju

Why is there an A at the end of his name?   
Why are the letters changed at the end of Mrzlo Polje?

Thanks!

I hope soon, there will be at least one book for learning Serbian on English in Digital Library, and some of earlier mentioned books on English that we're preparing also have short guides in Serbian.



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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #4 послато: Август 23, 2020, 10:33:42 пре подне »
When you search for names or places in our digital library, better add * so that the search includes different endings :)

I use it almost always, because the software sometimes makes a mistake adding some punctuation mark on the end of the word, usually it is the apostrophe character. If that is the case, the searching term will not be recognized, if you don't put an asterisk (*).



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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #5 послато: Август 23, 2020, 05:29:41 поподне »
All very valuable responses.  Thank you.  It has been 35 years or so since I had a few years of latin and....like most things I realize as an adult...I wish I had paid more attention at the time.  :)  But thank you for the link to the quick reference on Serbian cases of declination...it answers my question.
Also very good tip on the search value.  I will do that now.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #6 послато: Август 23, 2020, 06:02:58 поподне »
In Serbian language there’s 7 declination cases of nouns, so the toponyme Mrzlo Polje is declined like this:

Nom: Mrzlo Polje
Gen: Mrzlog Polja
Dat: Mrzlom Polju
Accus: Mrzlo Polje
Voc: Mrzlo Polje
Instr: Mrzlim Poljem
Loc: Mrzlom Polju
"Наша мука ваља за причешћа"

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #7 послато: Август 23, 2020, 11:11:43 поподне »
Amazing.  All of you that are bilingual and multilingual are impressive.  I am lucky to be able to use Spanglish to order at a mexican restaurant.

So a male name (normally not ending in A) would end in -a to show genitive case to show origin.
As in Batalo, Damjan (only a male's name) to show the father of would change it to genitive  Batalo, Damjana BOZO
Because Bozo originated/is of from Damjan ? 

I hope that is the correct interpretation. 

But that is only if the father's name ends in a consonant.  I was googling to understand the exception on names like Rade, Marko etc.  Then there is no change to the nominative form to indicate genitive case?

I referenced www.studyserbian.com  they do have a nice pdf that illustrates a table of noun gender and declinations.  But other than saying that Rade, Marko would look like Class 1 neuter but are really Class 1 male...they don't indicate how to change these types of names (male names that end -e or end - o)  to genitive. 


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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #8 послато: Август 23, 2020, 11:23:00 поподне »
Amazing.  All of you that are bilingual and multilingual are impressive.  I am lucky to be able to use Spanglish to order at a mexican restaurant.

So a male name (normally not ending in A) would end in -a to show genitive case to show origin.
As in Batalo, Damjan (only a male's name) to show the father of would change it to genitive  Batalo, Damjana BOZO
Because Bozo originated/is of from Damjan ? 

I hope that is the correct interpretation. 

But that is only if the father's name ends in a consonant.  I was googling to understand the exception on names like Rade, Marko etc.  Then there is no change to the nominative form to indicate genitive case?

I referenced www.studyserbian.com  they do have a nice pdf that illustrates a table of noun gender and declinations.  But other than saying that Rade, Marko would look like Class 1 neuter but are really Class 1 male...they don't indicate how to change these types of names (male names that end -e or end - o)  to genitive.

Genitive case of Rade would be "Rada" or "Radeta", depending on whether you're an Ijekavian (Rada) or Ekavian (Radeta) speaker. Genitive case of Marko is always "Marka".
Чињеницама против самоувереног незнања.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #9 послато: Август 23, 2020, 11:38:45 поподне »
Genitive case of Rade would be "Rada" or "Radeta", depending on whether you're an Ijekavian (Rada) or Ekavian (Radeta) speaker. Genitive case of Marko is always "Marka".

"Radeta" is not Ekavian per se. "Rada" is still the norm in my Ekavian hometown of Valjevo, for example.  :D

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #10 послато: Август 23, 2020, 11:42:30 поподне »
"Radeta" is not Ekavian per se. "Rada" is still the norm in my Ekavian hometown of Valjevo, for example.  :D
Do not make her confused at early begining ...Teach her exeptions litle later

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #11 послато: Август 23, 2020, 11:48:16 поподне »
Serbian language is very hard for who is not Serb. Look 7 declinations of my name Predrag , and of name Nikola.
Predrag                              Nikola
Predraga                            Nikole
Predragu                            Nikoli
Predrag                              Nikola
Predraze                            Nikola
Predragom                         Nikolom
Predragu                            Nikoli
This is not all , other 2 ways to finished my name and also name Nikola.
In english language. This is Predrag's sister. In serbian language. Ovo je Predragova sestra.
This is Predrag's brother.      Ovo je Predragov brat.
This is Nikola's sister.           Ovo je Nikolina sestra.
This is Nikola's brother.        Ovo je Nikolin brat.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #12 послато: Август 23, 2020, 11:50:39 поподне »
"Radeta" is not Ekavian per se. "Rada" is still the norm in my Ekavian hometown of Valjevo, for example.  :D

Yes, but it was Ijekavian 100 years ago, right?  ;) Some traces and influences always remain.
Чињеницама против самоувереног незнања.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #13 послато: Август 23, 2020, 11:54:00 поподне »
Serbian language is very hard for who is not Serb. Look 7 declinations of my name Predrag , and of name Nikola.
Predrag                              Nikola
Predraga                            Nikole
Predragu                            Nikoli
Predrag                              Nikola
Predraze                            Nikola
Predragom                         Nikolom
Predragu                            Nikoli
This is not all , other 2 ways to finished my name and also name Nikola.
In english language. This is Predrag's sister. In serbian language. Ovo je Predragova sestra.
This is Predrag's brother.      Ovo je Predragov brat.
This is Nikola's sister.           Ovo je Nikolina sestra.
This is Nikola's brother.        Ovo je Nikolin brat.

Accusative case of Predrag and Nikola (4th in order) should be "Predraga" and "Nikolu". Old vocative for Nikola would be "Nikolo", but it is seldom used today (except by our dear Nevski).
Чињеницама против самоувереног незнања.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #14 послато: Август 23, 2020, 11:56:13 поподне »
Genitive case of Rade would be "Rada" or "Radeta", depending on whether you're an Ijekavian (Rada) or Ekavian (Radeta) speaker. Genitive case of Marko is always "Marka".
                Nikola , I am ijekavian , but I said Radeta. Rada is in Montenegro.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #15 послато: Август 23, 2020, 11:59:21 поподне »
Accusative case of Predrag and Nikola (4th in order) should be "Predraga" and "Nikolu". Old vocative for Nikola would be "Nikolo", but it is seldom used today (except by our dear Nevski).
        U pravu si. My mistake.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #16 послато: Август 24, 2020, 12:06:00 пре подне »
Michelle, you must go in Nis and Pirot , two cities in south Serbia. People from Nis and Pirot speak without declinations. This is the thrut.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #17 послато: Август 24, 2020, 12:52:57 пре подне »
Grammatically feminine nouns ending in "-a" (a great majority of all feminine nouns, probably 85-90%) and their very straightforward rules

eg sestra = sister

Nominative : sestr{a} -- no preposition, Sentence Subject
Genitive: sestr{e} -- prepositions meaning "of", "from"
Dative/Locative: sestr{i} -- prepositions meaning "to" (Dative) or "in", "at", "about" (Locative)
Accusative: sestr{u} -- generally no preposition, Direct Object, in some very special cases, like the
           verb "look", the meaning of the preposition "at", eg "gledam sestru" = "I watch [my] sister" but
           "gledam u sestru" = "I am looking at [my] sister", also "zaklinjem se u sestru" = "I take an oath on
           the name of [my] sister" and such.
Vocative: sestr{o} -- no preposition, appelative
Instrumental: sestr{om} -- prepositions meaning "through", "by (the means of)"

Only for personal names, Vocative is nowadays mostly equal to Nominative ie ends in "-a", traditionally it has "-o". Words meaning natural masculine gender ending in "-a" like "sudija", "Nikola" and "Ilija" fall under the same rules, for all purposes they are grammatical feminine gender but are referred to as masculinum out of common courtesy.

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #18 послато: Август 24, 2020, 01:40:33 пре подне »
Genitive case of Rade would be "Rada" or "Radeta", depending on whether you're an Ijekavian (Rada) or Ekavian (Radeta) speaker. Genitive case of Marko is always "Marka".

It can be also "Rade". That for is used in southern and western Herzegovina.
Kамене рабъ и госодинъ

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Одг: Question about Serbian language
« Одговор #19 послато: Август 24, 2020, 01:53:07 пре подне »
Genitive case of Rade would be "Rada" or "Radeta", depending on whether you're an Ijekavian (Rada) or Ekavian (Radeta) speaker. Genitive case of Marko is always "Marka".

Ok that is good to know.  (Don't worry...I am no where near the level to consider exceptions) 
I am just trying to get familiar with some things that I see frequently in the research I am doing.  I think that when you are trying to understand a language that is not taught to you formally...it good to start to learn things you will see frequently.
for instance...I always recognize the words:  roden, polje, zanimanje, dan, mesec i godina....
  ;)
It is weird though, because in that volume Kotar Slunj i Kotar Veljun ....it doesn't follow that genitive form for the male names ending in -e and -o.   Format is all the same. 
ex: 
entry #19. Krnic Dane PAVAO ....
entry #20. Majstorovic Ivana ANICA....

They didn't change Dane to Dana.  This is what prompted my question.   Since the format was consistent...I assumed that the first name after the surname was the fathers and then the second name was the decendent.